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Yes or no

1. The turnover in marketing is not low. If the company is lucky enough to get too many talents, the ones don't get rewarded will choose to leave for better elsewhere. 2. Some companies do layoff every few years. In lots of cases, the layoff is said to be related to reorg, but more so about talent upgrade. 3. Once a talent, not always talent. I saw talent could be laid off too for various reasons. 4. Not all performance stars opt for promotion.:-) many people just don't like managerial side of it.
The issue of "too many chiefs" lies in organizational structure and the definition of roles and responsibilities, not necessarily about talent mgmt.
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  • 工作学习 / 事业与工作 / 浅谈我做中层管理的几点体会 (1) - Talent Review
    本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛去年夏天发了一些职业心得,最近又想写一点了。我一般在压力巨大的时候都会写一些东西。最近工作家庭事情多得不得了,所以又写点吧。 想到哪就写到哪,不严谨的地方见谅。之前我的文章搜索一下就可。如果今年写的和去年有重复,就算我老年痴呆吧。

    我在一个大公司的MARKETING部门工作任director。目前的四个direct report 都是Senior Manager,他们各自又有2-4个的direct report.。 十几个人的TEAM, 不大不小吧。厚着脸皮上来share一下,肉联能人多,以此抛砖引玉。

    (1) Talent Review
    以下部分文字取自我之前与网友的PM交流

    说说我们公司的talent review吧,和annual performance review是不同的。一般一年1~2次。

    First step,a closed-door meeting between VP and his/her direct reports (usually director)。All direct reports need to submit a list which classifies their employees into four groups: 1. Under performing; 2, meet requirement but not ready for a director role within 2-3 years; 3; can become a director within 2-3 years in the same function; 4; can become a director within 2-3 years in the same or different function. 90%的人都在2; 归在1, 3 ,4的人全部需要单独讨论。归在1 的是要在六个月内改善否则就自谋出路要不就是等待扫地出门。 建议被归在3或4的员工都要被拿出来被大家讨论。 这时如果某员工平时exposure不高,很吃亏的。因为大家没有合作过,也说不出所以然来。如果平时和大家打交道多,给directors们留下的印象够好,那么这个TALENT candidate 就无疑问了。 VP的要求是,所有director要多创造机会给3和4的自己员工在vp和其他director表现的机会,开会什么的。否则的话,那就是那个director 的team development的问题。这样被认定为talent的员工接下来只要保持一贯水准,获得锻炼得机会大大的有。如果一个director一直没员工可归在3和4 , 同样会被认为team development或Team Building的问题。这时候VP就会找director谈话,比如说“Do you think you need to do a talent upgrade in your team”?

    2nd step,VP, SVP, EVP们再闭门开会,讨论1,3,4。过程同上,但同时会讨论半年内升总监的的人选,我去年的帖子说过,这时是一票否决制。所以vp推出一个人后,他必须有信心就是这个人选别的vp不会拆台,否则会挺尴尬的。如果你被定位为下一个director人选,一有职位空缺,你就是第一梯队。近几年,我们公司director的空缺80%以上均是如此“内定”(当然包括平级调动的),公开招聘或竞争的为少数。

    在TALENT review 当中,那些performance star一般是SENIOR ANALYST 或manager level。据我观察,不被定为TALENT的人被晋升到senior manager的机会就会低。 而被定为TALENT的人除非特殊情况一般也不会被告知,感觉有点黑箱操作。其实这也是防止不必要的纠纷。 我是被提升到senior manager 的时候,被vp告知我被选定为talent之一,如果表现良好,半年后升director。其实就是要我拿senior manager的工资干director 的活。半年后说别的svp觉得我还嫩点,原位再锻炼。后来过了几个月后,在我最意想不到的时候,告知“你已经通过考察”。对了,如果是“analyst到senior analyst 或junior manager, junior manager 到 medium level manager 的晋升,和talent review的关系就不太大。我个人感觉talent review 是为leadership team 而设计的。

    未完持续

    每个公司的talent review 形式不同,大家说说你们自己公司的吧。更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • 想起了偶认识的一个朋友。类似职位,也是管着十几个人的team,不过不是marketing,是sales.
    • 其实领导的工作真的就是这么无聊。开会->为再开会做准备->开会。我都在想要不要继续做下去.
      • 任何职业,当领导,管人永远是最头疼的。
    • This process is probably only relevant to marketing field where your staff can ever-grow by new recruits. In a normal organization you would hit "talent overflow" in no time -- i.e. "Too many chiefs, no enough indian." :-)
      • Yes or no
        1. The turnover in marketing is not low. If the company is lucky enough to get too many talents, the ones don't get rewarded will choose to leave for better elsewhere. 2. Some companies do layoff every few years. In lots of cases, the layoff is said to be related to reorg, but more so about talent upgrade. 3. Once a talent, not always talent. I saw talent could be laid off too for various reasons. 4. Not all performance stars opt for promotion.:-) many people just don't like managerial side of it.
        The issue of "too many chiefs" lies in organizational structure and the definition of roles and responsibilities, not necessarily about talent mgmt.
        • good points! if you dont mind I'd like to get some insights from
          managers/directors's perspective on some situations that a employee has stayed for a same position for many years and always meets expectation of course, but got no promotion, no demotion. so what most likely is his manager's impression of that employee?
          • Most of the time “meets expectation” is doing only what is required to keep the job and that’s not sufficient to get a promotion. If you want to advance, you need to reach beyond expectations and exceed them.
            Besides having strong knowledge and skill sets (both technical and soft) , those who get promoted are the ones also having great pride, passion and enthusiasm in their jobs. So attitude many times could keep someone from moving up.
            • So during self-review, for a average hard-working employee, will it be too cheeky to rate himself as "beyond expectation"? I always feel like there should be some mid-ground between "meet.." and "exceed".
              • One should ask him/herself a few questions:
                do I have passion for my work? Do I get motivated by pressure/challenges and go above and beyond what's expected of me? Do I take the initiative to make improvements at work? Can I be a leader when needed and not always as a follower? If the answer is yes to all, then he/she can go beyond expectations.
      • Too many chiefs, no enough indian-----learned a new phrase from you today, thank you !
    • Isn't it the same HR process as being hammered as "the HR process killed innovation in Microsoft"?
    • Thanks for sharing.
    • 谢谢分享,长知识了。等待续集。
    • Talent Review 续
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛谈谈什么样人的员工会被认可为talent。这个问题很难谈出新意,我大部分的心得在去年的贴子里已经谈到(hard skill + soft skill)等等。见链接

      我今天就打算补充以下几点:
      1. 完全同意JOYCE楼上的COMMENT,你必须要有足够的PASSION about what you are doing。这样你才能脱颖而出。套用一句话,“群众的眼睛是雪亮的”,我可以说“老板的眼睛是雪亮的”。一个员工是充满热情的投入工作努力做到一百二十分,bring on the A game for every small or big task that’s given,和不犯错交差了事的员工对比,作老板的一目了然。

      2. 除了自己要有passion,你还要表现出来。抛开“沉默是金”, “酒香不怕巷子深”的观念,大胆的和老板说you are the type of being motivated by continuous challenge and you are driven by the goal of being xxx in xx years. 建议坦诚地和老板交流你的career plan then ask for how they can help you get there. 最近在工作亲身经历的一个例子:一个好位子空出来,有两个优秀人选都想争取到。其中A根据自己的观察认为自己就是内定的人(比如他最近接了好多与“空缺”岗位相关的项目等等)。另外一人B原本不在plan里却主动出击:先通过自己的直接领导向vp探口风,得到POSITIVE的反映后,精心准备和vp的约谈。在约谈中大谈自己的优势和曾经HANDLE的各类项目。就是这次约谈,令到vp弃A选B。vp 的反馈是“really impressed by B’s aggressiveness and good preparation for the talk. It shows how much B wants the job。Also surprised that B has done so many projects in the past that showcase B is well rounded person to get the role. 可能有人认为这样aggressive会不会姿态台难看。其实真的不必过分忧虑,这是一种自信的表现。如果我看好的员工这样做,我会想“good for her, she is fighting for herself!”如果我认为一般的员工这样做,那我就告诉他我就告诉他目前的gap在那里,expectation是什么,让他好好努力,让他自己分析他需要的改进努力的地方; 或者让他分析目前的岗位是不是最能发挥他长处的岗位。

      在talent review当中,有相当多的人得到的comment是“he or she is comfortable/happy with what he is doing now. He or she may want to have a more life/work balance. He or she doesn’t seem to be motivated by increased responsibility”. 这类员工很多时候均相当优秀也有热情,老板也认可,得到的评价基本可能是真实的。但有时候我在想有多少是被误读的呢。要想不被误读,就只有坦诚地交代出来。

      3. 有人说,我老板本身不强,和他说了可能将来就有小鞋穿了。这种情况肯定存在。我个人经验,和上司,上上司打交道的原则是,不要让他们对你有负面情绪,包括“不耐”、“不满”、“防备”、“嫉妒”等。特别是你的上司能力和口碑都不错的情况下。要升职先从直接上司入手,问他拿career path, development plan。礼貌的谈,一次不行,谈第二次。谈的时候不要给他压力,多分析自己的不足,让他感觉你当他是明师。少问“why I haven’t got the promotion?”, 多问“what area should I improve on”, “Any suggestion on how to improve that”。如果你的上司名声很臭,短期内公司又不会动他,你就focus 在自身的历练,争取机会调职。更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
      • +1
      • 顶!quite agree,尤其最后一句"如果你的上司名声很臭,短期内公司又不会动他,你就focus 在自身的历练,争取机会调职。"
      • 谢谢,对我很有参考价值。
      • Thank you for sharing.
    • 国人在这里做纯MARKETING的真是很少,支持一下。看了LZ的帖子,勾起了我在MARKETING公司工作的回忆。 我曾经在BAY街上的一家跨国的世界排名前三的4A DIRECT MARKETING工作了近10年,但我不做分析和MARKETING的职位。但对这行业了解颇深。
      • mkt门槛那是大大滴,一般国人有应该也是在数据部门把?
    • 很好的文章,谢谢分享。国人做marketing的少,成功的更少,不容易。
    • Good article. just curious, are you product marketing, B2B marketing or campaign marketing...
      • I am responsible for one of the P of marketing's 4P.
    • 每个单位的talent management似乎都象黑帮(a.k.a.领导~)操作。
      • 同意。 TALENT MAN.就俩个特点。1. 一朝天子,一朝臣。2.说你行你就行不行也行,说你不行你就不行行也不行。
    • 这个帖子刚看的时候,就猜有那么一,两个ID死都不会跟贴,果然如此