文中也说了当时的西方国家都是种族主义国家,其实如果加拿大从一开始就全面禁止中国移民,甚至付钱都不行,反倒现在没有人告他们了.... -wzap(识食物者为俊杰) @佛州华人论坛:佛州枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Florida

枫下茶话 / 社会 / 桌子介绍一下历史上加拿大华人为平反人头税而作的法律斗争吧，比如有没有尝试过控告政府，有的话是谁干的，为什么失败了。这比你一天上上下下用加粗的方括号贴标语强。那玩意让我回忆起中国街头的医疗和证件广告。 -pasu(InTheSky); 2005-11-29 (#2634658@0)

你没有能力自己去找资料？ -skywriting(天书); 2005-11-29 (#2634668@0)

你有能力读中文吗？你通读过24史吗？ -pasu(InTheSky); 2005-11-29 (#2634995@0)

看情形，这位已经胸有成竹的答案了嘛。不错，平权会是控告过政府，平权会是败诉了，so what?正好验证了多年来孜孜不倦为人头税［加粗的方括号贴标语］是平权会，而不是如今领赏的华联会。 -table(桌子来了); 2005-11-29 (#2634685@0)

桌子能否简单介绍一下这两个组织，不是很了解 -deen(修罗王); 2005-11-29 (#2634712@0)

全加華人團體聯合總會 VS 全加華人協進會(ZT) URL -table(桌子来了); 8.18 11:17 (#2457776) -table(桌子来了); 2005-11-29 (#2634853@0)

控告政府的是3个人，不是平权会，平权会是支持策划。也没有败诉，法庭根本就没有受理。我问上面的问题，是因为不知道平权会自己是怎么看待那次挫折，有没有总结出什么应对办法或者教训。你能要是把抹黑别人的努力用来多介绍点真相多好。 -pasu(InTheSky); 2005-11-29 (#2634993@0)

同意!从感情上我支持平权会,希望老人们得到补偿,但通过法律手段无法解决的时候,我不反对华联会一揽子现金补偿的办法.时间毕竟所剩不多,难道要等这些老人全去世了到时候恐怕连这些钱都拿不回来了... -wzap(识食物者为俊杰); 2005-11-29 {331} (#2635495@0)
毕竟人头税不象日本人或原著民那样是政府强迫,而中國人是可來可不來，並不是政府的強迫行為。而且据我所知其他族裔也有类似人头税的遭遇.比如吉普赛人也曾经要交一定费用才可以在加拿大定居..

大家都是华人,虽然对人头税的解决方法有不同的看法,重要的是不要内斗互相泼污水,本来是海外华人自己的分歧,少数服从多数就行了,硬要扯什么GCD背景就没意思了...

OK.那就把那些钱先分给老人们吧. 其他人都不许从中拿钱. -iwantcar(EnjoyStudying); 2005-11-30 (#2635807@0)
华联会的解释还是行之有效的嘛！［人头税不象日本人那样是政府强迫,而中國人是可來可不來。］这是相当误导的说法，大家都是可来可不来，唯独对中国人的来征税，凭什么呀？ -table(桌子来了); 2005-11-30 (#2636037@0)

这是歧视,但在当时违法吗?那请解释一下,为什么诉诸法律的努力失败?你觉得未来10年有可能打赢官司吗?如果老人们不可能通过法律得到补偿,你们这样闹来闹去,还不是华人内部的分赃不均的问题.. -wzap(识食物者为俊杰); 2005-11-30 (#2636095@0)

Chinese Head Tax Issue Speeches by Senator Vivienne Poy(利德惠),请桌子和其他DX参考.我建议大家对事情没有全面了解之前,请不要仓促下结论,冲动容易误事... -wzap(识食物者为俊杰); 2005-11-30 {2077} (#2636168@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛--摘录其中一段,全文请看联结....

We all know about the success of the redress movement of the Japanese-Canadians in 1988. Like everything else in Canada, events seem to follow those in the U.S. In 1980, the U.S. Congress conducted hearings into the internment of Japanese Americans. A year before the Canadian agreement by the Mulroney government, the U.S. government offered an acknowledgement and individual compensation package to the Japanese American internees.

In 1988, Prime Minister Mulroney formally acknowledged the wrongs done to the Japanese Canadians, and authorized the provision of C$21,000.00 to each of the individual survivors of wartime detention. The language used in the official document was “acknowledge” the treatment of the Japanese Canadians, and the government “pledge” to ensure it won’t happen again, as well as to “recognize” the commitment and loyalty of the Japanese Canadians to Canada. Please note that nowhere was the word “apologize” ever used. This is important because the Chinese communities all want an apology, even if they cannot agree on anything else. Please remember that the federal government will be very reluctant to use the word “apology”, because legally speaking, it means liability, and the government can be sued for monetary compensation. And because there are so many groups out there asking for redress, the government feels that there would be no end to it.

The Japanese redress movement was successful and a comparison has often been drawn to that of the Chinese Head Tax redress. I want to point out that there are at least two major differences: 1. the Chinese who paid the Head Tax to come to Canada were Chinese nationals and not Canadians. The Head Tax was to prevent the Chinese from entering the country. The Japanese who were interned were Canadians or residents of Canada; 2. Unlike the Japanese Canadians, the Chinese were not interned, and to my knowledge, they never had their belongings and properties confiscated and sold. So, comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
http://www.sen.parl.gc.ca/vpoy/english/Special_Interests/speeches/Speech%20-%20Natl_Congress_CC_130903.htm

两个区别里面第一个是最重要的。当然加拿大政府也是很流氓的：一边不让人入籍，一边每年收人头税。更流氓的是，这个做法在法律框架里面是自恰的，你干不倒它。 -pasu(InTheSky); 2005-11-30 (#2636276@0)

这个事情其实很复杂很难解决,不象桌子说的那么简单,更不象某些人凭空想象而得出的阴谋交易结论,类比一下,美国现在对中国等国家的公民进入美国有特别"照顾措施",是不是也是歧视?另外现在移民要交登陆费,将来移民的子女是否会控告政府歧视移民要求赔偿? -wzap(识食物者为俊杰); 2005-11-30 (#2636282@0)

已经有人提这茬了，不一样的是，除非是极为贫苦的难民，无分种族国籍来源地，一律要交登陆费 -table(桌子来了); 2005-11-30 (#2636305@0)
您到是嘴下留情，只是说我说的简单，到了pasu嘴上，我所做所为，就是［抹黑别人的努力］(#2634993)，亏得俺既没拿华联会的人民币，也冒得平权会的卢布可赏，@_@ -table(桌子来了); 2005-11-30 (#2636319@0)

如果不是我提，你有把这些资料找出来给大家看看吗？还有，“领赏”是什么意思？呵呵。 -pasu(InTheSky); 2005-11-30 (#2636367@0)

[A formal apology and acknowledgement of unjust treatment and violation of human rights; ] -table(桌子来了); 2005-11-30 {1148} (#2636286@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛The 1988 landmark settlement negotiated by the federal government with the National Association of Japanese Canadians (NAJC), which included:

A formal apology and acknowledgement of unjust treatment and violation of human rights;

Symbolic individual redress of $21,000 for each Japanese Canadian eligible;
$12 million to the Japanese Canadian community, through the NAJC, to undertake educational, social and cultural activities or programmes that contribute to the well-being of the community or that promote human rights;

$12 million on behalf of Japanese Canadians and to commemorate those who suffered these past injustices and a further $12 million from the Government of Canada to establish the Canadian Race Relations Foundation to foster racial harmony and cross-cultural understanding and to help eliminate racism;

Canadian citizenship for those persons of Japanese descent having been expelled from Canada or who had their citizenship revoked during the period;

and
An additional $3 million for NAJC for contractual commitments to community liaison and administration of redress claims during implementation stage.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/multi/wcar/advisory/redress_e.shtml

你这个不是"official document",能不能找到当时加国政府正式道歉的文书啊? -wzap(识食物者为俊杰); 2005-11-30 (#2636297@0)

ahahah, I am doing the job, let's do it together, @_@ -table(桌子来了); 2005-11-30 (#2636300@0)
实际上，在ＪＡＳＥＰ，歪打正着，我在当时日本加人修的高速公路旁边，自己亲眼看见加拿大政府给日本后裔道歉立的石碑，拍下来了，我再查查，给我一点时间，看能不能贴上来图片。 -table(桌子来了); 2005-11-30 (#2636341@0)

你是对的，Vivienne Poy在撒谎 “I know I speak for Members on all sides of the House today in offering to Japanese Canadians the formal and sincere apology of this Parliament...” -pasu(InTheSky); 2005-11-30 {477} (#2636360@0)
I know that I speak for Members on all sides of the House today in offering to Japanese Canadians the formal and sincere apology of this Parliament for those past injustices against them, against their families, and against their heritage, and our solemn commitment and undertaking to Canadians of every origin that such violations will never again in this country be countenanced or repeated.

Prime Minister Brian Mulroney's remarks to the House of Commons, Sept. 22, 1988
http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-71-568-2924/conflict_war/internment/clip9

vedio clip from CBC -pasu(InTheSky); 2005-11-30 (#2636361@0)
来Law Commission of Canada的资料 -pasu(InTheSky); 2005-11-30 (#2636363@0)

Liar, Liar, Liar. -tidy(大米虫); 2005-12-1 {42} (#2638936@0)
"sincere apology" != “apologize” ;-)))

Brian Mulroney's remarks, September 22, 1998 vs. Vivienne Poy's remarks, September 13, 2003. Five years later ... -tidy(大米虫); 2005-12-1 {248} (#2639045@0)
Prime Minister Brian Mulroney's remarks to the House of Commons,
Sept. 22, 1988

Chinese Head Tax Issue 12th AGM of the National Congress of Chinese Canadians
Winnipeg Chinese Cultural and Community Centre
September 13, 2003
By Vivienne Poy

(#2612175) [In 1988 the Canadian government, under Brian Mulroney, extended an official apology to Japanese-Canadians] -table(桌子来了); 2005-11-30 (#2636294@0)
很辛苦才把这篇文章看完，不是因为英文，都用的很简单的文字，而是看的很气愤！几次想不看了，还是坚持下去了。 -temptemp(N/A); 2005-11-30 (#2636333@0)

同感。 -wuyingwuying(wuyingwuying); 2005-12-1 (#2638985@0)

不给你吃饭，是因为你在家里只吃地瓜－－－原文有一段解释中国人的“传统”和“文化”：男子成年了都是在外地谋生，妻儿都是在老家的－－－潜台词：不让你家人来，加国政府是照顾你的“传统”需要，没有人道的责任。 -temptemp(N/A); 2005-11-30 (#2636344@0)
我不想卖这旧电脑给你，虽然不值钱，我要价1K然后升到10K，你还要卖，姜太公钓鱼，没什么好说的－－－原文有一段说的修完铁路了，不在需要华工了，所以政客搞了个人头税来阻止华人移民， -temptemp(N/A); 2005-11-30 {377} (#2636369@0)
开始还很体贴的设为$50，因为据计算，华工一年的储蓄是$48。但完全没有效果，只好一直加上去直到$500，但还是没有效果。分析下来，那是因为中国战乱，饥荒，这些人是无论如何都要来的。而且1908年加国政府还派代表去和满洲政府谈判，希望中国限制移民，中国建议每年1000人，加国认为太多（请问有多少单身华工在加国，即使是1000/年，他们要等多少年才家庭团聚呢？）－－－潜台词，加国仁至义尽，你自找的

文中也说了当时的西方国家都是种族主义国家,其实如果加拿大从一开始就全面禁止中国移民,甚至付钱都不行,反倒现在没有人告他们了.... -wzap(识食物者为俊杰); 2005-11-30 {782} (#2636376@0)
过去的事情已经过去了,关键是不要让它重犯,就象文中所说...

For all of you who really want to learn about the insider story of the Japanese Canadian redress, you should read Bitter Sweet Passage by Maryka Omatsu, who is a judge in Ontario, and who was intimately involved with the negotiations. I agree with her that, if it had not been for the settlement in the U.S., and the economic clout of Japan, it would not have happened in Canada.

No matter what any government says, history can repeat itself, so we must always be vigilant. Ultimately, I think political power is the only way to ensure that past wrongs will not be repeated. So, to all the members of the younger generation here, please keep that in mind, and play an active role in Canada’s future government.

不给你赔偿，是因为你家里穷，没值钱的东西－－－原文里提到为什么给日本人赔偿了，因为第一他们是加籍人，而且有财产在加国，那措施导致他们要变卖财产招致损失。 -temptemp(N/A); 2005-11-30 {163} (#2636379@0)
人头税是针对中国移民，他们没有财产在加国，也就谈不上损失了。（请问，妻儿老小不能团聚，这里的光棍华工是不是要变卖家产回中国啊？）－－－潜台词，补偿？，补偿什么啊？
不能写了，已经不能平静地看了，以上都是就原文来说的。Don't take it personal. 什么是侮辱，就是卖了你，你还帮他数钱，还感恩戴德。想想当年卖被卖猪仔的人。 -temptemp(N/A); 2005-11-30 (#2636390@0)
The roots are history, the "interests" are tomorrow. -tidy(大米虫); 2005-12-1 {457} (#2638834@0)
"An author, entrepreneur, fashion designer, and historian, Vivienne Poy is the first Canadian of Asian descent to be appointed to the Senate of Canada. She was appointed to the Senate in 1998, and elected as Chancellor of the University of Toronto in 2003. "

"My interest in history also led me to examine my roots. In 1995, “A River Named Lee” was published, which traced my family’s history in China to over two thousand years

Her website =>
http://sen.parl.gc.ca/vpoy/english/Home-e.htm

@Florida

文中也说了当时的西方国家都是种族主义国家,其实如果加拿大从一开始就全面禁止中国移民,甚至付钱都不行,反倒现在没有人告他们了....

Replies, comments and Discussions:

More Topics