the things are not going so far. If You really love her, you have to do like this. -allrichest(ifilucky) @佛州华人论坛:佛州枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Florida

枫下佳缘 / 情爱悠悠 / 心碎－－１５年的感情毁于一旦 -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 {1170} (#1473060@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛我太太和我相识相爱在我们的１９岁，彼此都是初恋，那时候除了爱我们一无所有，穷但快乐着。大学毕业后我们结婚了，婚后的日子不象恋爱时那么美好，诸多方面的原因也让我们磕磕碰碰，争争吵吵，但我们都走过来了，因为毕竟是多年的夫妻。五年前我们来到加拿大，想忘记以前的不快，重新开始新的生活。加拿大对我们不薄，一年内我们都找到了专业工作，接着买车买房，然后有了一个聪明漂亮的儿子，我一直在感谢上天赐于我这一切。

十天前太太告诉我说她想分手，这对我无异于一个晴天霹雳。她对我的怨气很深，觉得我不疼她，赖散，不思进取，无法依靠，不珍惜她，以前所有的旧帐都翻出来证明。

我太太非常聪明，好强，踏实，肯干，收入比我高。我是一个比较安于现状，喜欢享受生活的人，但我自问我不是个坏男人，很顾家，没有不良嗜好。

我做了所有的一切，告诉她我很爱她，给我一个改过的机会，求她回心转意。十天了，她从不松口，去意坚决。我怀疑她有外遇，她既不承认也不否认。

１５年的感情毁于一旦，一个幸福的家就要分崩离析，我的心已经碎了。最可怜的是我的儿子，什么都还不知道，家就没了。不论是我的错还是她的错，惩罚应该由我们大人来承担，不应该降临到无辜孩子的头上。如果没有孩子，我不会这样死缠烂打，我会放她去得到她觉得的幸福。但是为了孩子，我要继续做我所能做的一切去挽回她，只要还有一线希望。

谁能教教我，该怎么办？更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

做为女人，可以为孩子牺牲一切，而你的太太却如此坚决，有外遇的可能很大。最可怜的是孩子。 -ppmm-1(ppmm-1); 2003-11-19 (#1473083@0)

孩子会适应的. 关键是你. 强扭的瓜不甜. ＭＯＶＥ　ＯＮ． -xz730000(笑一笑，十年少); 2003-11-19 (#1473197@0)

你们之间的感情与孩子无关，爱则聚，不爱则分。儿子不应该是分手的理由，也不应该是维系婚姻的藉口。 -flyaway(F.); 2003-11-19 (#1473089@0)

嗯 -win(秋天的菠菜); 2003-11-19 (#1473091@0)
我不想把孩子作为籍口。我们都极爱孩子，儿子两岁不到就很调皮，被爸爸骂就找妈妈，被妈妈说就找爸爸，就是不认错。 -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 {212} (#1473102@0)
现在我们教育他时站在一边，他讨不到好，只好改错。要是分手了就不可能这样了，孩子一定会被宠坏的。还有，继父能对他如何？他被其他小孩欺负了怎么办？
离婚对孩子来说一定是巨大的打击，可能彻底改变他的一生，可他是无辜的。

如果你把这些道理都给你的太太解释了，而她还是坚持自己的选择，那是不是就说明她的想法是无法改变的？世界上从来就不是每件事情都合理，对每个人都公平，有的时候我们真的别无选择。 -dalianmao(dalianmao); 2003-11-19 (#1473115@0)
不幸的婚姻难道不是对孩子更大的打击吗？ -flyaway(F.); 2003-11-19 (#1473254@0)

同意, 举双手双脚表示赞同楼上的观点. -mashimaro(流氓兔;我就是贪吃); 2003-11-20 (#1475132@0)

你太太應該不是突然提出離婚的，她的理由有沒有道理？女人，很多喜歡追求榮華富貴，喜歡把自己的男人和別人比較．這是毛病，也是天性．看看你能不能解決這個問題．可以先分開一段時間試試．孩子可憐，但不能阻礙大人的幸福． -rollor(Rollor); 2003-11-19 (#1473129@0)

这样的情况可不可以让女方出钱供养男方？凭什么离了婚都是男的白养女的？ -vega_lee(天津の包子.NET); 2003-11-19 (#1473142@0)

离题了。 -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 (#1473177@0)

不离题，给她经济上的威慑，不能轻言离婚。不能光男的有经济责任，女的也得有吧。要不她们太随便了，女的想离就离还有补助。 -vega_lee(天津の包子.NET); 2003-11-19 (#1473829@0)

她是突然提出离婚；她的理由有道理，但不至于严重到非离婚不可的地步。这两点基本说明有外力的介入。分开一段时间，恐怕再也没有回头的机会。 -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 {228} (#1473173@0)
她不是个贪图荣华富贵的女人，当年我一无所有，她都跟着我，吃了不少苦。我问过她，我们彼此还有感情，我不知道她为何如此坚决，外力这么强大？
幸福？恐怕是一时的激情而已。１５年后的今天也许我们激情不再，但这份珍贵的亲情才是真正的幸福。

这份珍贵的亲情may not be as precious to her anymore. Look forward. Time will help. Give your wife a chance of a new better life, -ztech(Agent Yasuyi-安特工); 2003-11-19 {92} (#1473179@0)
you have already realized that you're not helping. she makes more than you do for one fact.
關于榮華富貴，年輕時和現在很可能不一樣．如果你確定是外力介入，就離了算了．跟孩子解釋一下，未必會造成重大傷害． -rollor(Rollor); 2003-11-19 {560} (#1473277@0)
我的一個朋友，夫妻長期分居（我不知道離婚沒有），孩子跟著母親，放假時去跟父親住些日子．沒覺得他怎麼不幸．他母親的男朋友對他很好．

人們同情愛護孩子．為了孩子可以犧牲自己．但是，每一個人，無論大人還是孩子，都應該為自己活著．當自己犧牲的東西與可能獲得的東西差距太大得不償失時，就不要選擇犧牲了．

愛護孩子，更應該愛護自己．

如果你老婆已經不再愛你，如果你不能使她回心轉意，就別勉強了．離婚後，憑著中年男人的魅力，你會重新得到幸福的．

你的孩子應該懂事了．告訴他，爸爸媽媽沒法在一起生活了，必須離婚．爸爸媽媽仍然愛你，仍然會照顧你的學習和生活．他會明白的．
她是否有外遇、外遇是否会带给她幸福，完全是她自己的事。而且，如果爱情完全转成了亲情，我认为她完全有理由选择另一段爱情。你所能做的，就是祝福她，如果还爱她，向她表示你的爱，然后等她回头。 -flyaway(F.); 2003-11-19 (#1473297@0)

一派胡言. -anewgoodman(aNewGoodMan); 2003-11-19 (#1474602@0)

Appreciate what the God and your wonderful wife have offered you for the past 15 years. Pray for your wife and wish her all the best. -ztech(Agent Yasuyi-安特工); 2003-11-19 {10} (#1473164@0)
Period. :)

I will if she is gone. But what can I do for my son? I love him so much. -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 (#1473181@0)

How old is he? -ztech(Agent Yasuyi-安特工); 2003-11-19 (#1473185@0)

almost 2 years old. -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 (#1473188@0)

I guess there're kids grown up w/ single parent. Not much one can do, other than work harder. -ztech(Agent Yasuyi-安特工); 2003-11-19 (#1473199@0)

this's the best reply i have read so far. really nice! -banker(见面熟); 2003-11-19 (#1473600@0)

对你的遭遇表示同情，出个主意，不一定行，试试吧 -no_name(I ·þÁ&); 2003-11-19 {340} (#1473195@0)
找一个你们双方都极相知，相识的人(亲戚，朋友，同学，同事不限)，先跟他(她)说说你的这些想法，再让他(她)去跟你太太谈谈，劝一劝，讲讲利弊，摸摸底，探探真正的原因(是否移情别恋)，看看是否还有回心转意的可能。如果真无回旋的余地，劝你不如尽早忍痛割爱，否则可能对孩子影响更不好。

送君一句话: 大丈夫能屈能伸。再说，将来也许她还觉得你好，和你复婚那。

这个办法好 -benii(搬运工); 2003-11-19 (#1473351@0)

agree, up -buma(buma); 2003-11-19 (#1473923@0)

Move on, man. Things happen. Who knows what will happen next. Maybe she will be back to you, maybe you will find your true love who won't pick on you. -rudy2000(动一动); 2003-11-19 (#1473247@0)
如果我是你 -rolia(rolia); 2003-11-19 {176} (#1473263@0)
我会跟她说明：为了孩子，请你重新考虑，如果孩子也留不住你，那请你离开。你这么爱孩子，一定不要把孩子给了她，她这么狠心，以后对孩子也没什么好处。你就带着孩子过吧，没什么大不了的。

"你这么爱孩子，一定不要把孩子给了她"? -ztech(Agent Yasuyi-安特工); 2003-11-19 {4} (#1473268@0)
LOL.

Any problem? I think he should keep the baby. -rolia(rolia); 2003-11-19 (#1473278@0)

It's up to the beloved one. -ztech(Agent Yasuyi-安特工); 2003-11-19 (#1473285@0)

but i'm afraid his wife cannot take care of the baby well anymore -rolia(rolia); 2003-11-19 (#1473304@0)

Have you ever heard one word from his wife? -flyaway(F.); 2003-11-19 (#1473311@0)

You are right, my suggestion is only based on his words. With all that I have known, I will suggest he let her go but keep the baby. If his wife has other stories, maybe I'll think it again. -rolia(rolia); 2003-11-19 (#1473338@0)

我却不认为孩子应该跟着这样的爸爸。So far as I know from his posts, I don't think he is a good father and a good husband. (No offense. Just my personal feelings.) -flyaway(F.); 2003-11-19 (#1473306@0)

Give your reasons. He is not aggressive but enjoying his life. He loves his son and his family. I don't see any wrong with him. -rolia(rolia); 2003-11-19 {108} (#1473327@0)
apparently, his wife is getting some new ideas, she has no interest in giving the little one a happy family.

a happy family? Do you call a family which the wife asking a divorce is a happy family? Moreover, I don't think it's all his wife's fault. -flyaway(F.); 2003-11-19 {270} (#1473367@0)
Everybody has his/her own life and freedom no matter s/he is married or not.
It seems the husband cares too much about others' business .

Is he enjoying his life? Probably. But I think the way he enjoying his life blocked the way his wife or his kid to enjoy life.

Come on, you know a lot of freedom, do you know anything of liability? -rolia(rolia); 2003-11-19 {311} (#1473395@0)
The poor man is asking suggestion of giving his baby a stable life, you think he is blocking the baby's way to seek happiness???????? He did not block his wife's way either, he is just trying to save the marriage, and the family. Do you know the couple in a marriage have the liability to keep the family?

I am a good father, but may not be a good husband. My wife is an excellent mother and also a very good wife. I am still loving her very much. -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 {534} (#1473491@0)
I never said it was all her fault. I did realize that I did something wrong and did not do enough as what a husband should do. I am really sorry about that and asking a chance to change myself.
After being together 15 years, I never think of this could happen to me. She raised this suddenly, and hadn't told me anything explicitly before. I think it is because of breakdown of communication. We should have solved problems if she spoke out.
I am trying to do anything to save this family, to avoid it being destroyed mistakenly.

. -henhen(哼哼, 找工ing ^_^); 2003-11-19 {77} (#1473500@0)
my friend was in a similar situation. now they are still wife and husband.

Thank you. Encourage and suggestions are what I need most right now. -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 (#1473514@0)

. -henhen(哼哼, 找工ing ^_^); 2003-11-19 {23} (#1473550@0)
go ahead. Talk to her.

"We should have solved problems if she spoke out." You're still thinking it's your wife's mistake. Forget all I said if you don't like. Wish you good luck and all the best to your wife. -flyaway(F.); 2003-11-19 (#1473504@0)

Thank you, and please don't stop. You are telling me what my wife is thinking now. But I still believe that a wife and a husband should communicate with each other before things are getting worse. -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 (#1473540@0)

my thoughts -mssg(mssg); 2003-11-19 {625} (#1473521@0)
1. 15 years and 一旦, I am sure you have a lot to think about

2. in terms of relationship Rolia is not a good place to sort tings out, rather than a place for people to kill time.

3. I think u still have chance, treat her same as 16 years ago ba.

4. In case things not working out

我曾经爱过你
- 普希金

我曾经爱过你：爱情，也许
在我的心灵里还没有完全消亡，
但愿它不会再打扰你，
我也不想再使你难过悲伤。
我曾经默默无语、毫无指望地爱过你，
我既忍受着羞怯，又忍受着嫉妒的折磨，
我曾经那样真诚、那样温柔地爱过你，
但愿上帝保佑你，
另一个人也会象我爱你一样

5. Change is the only constant thing is life

Thank you. Most people are very nice here, and they don't joke in this serious topic. They are helping me. Thank you all. -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 (#1473590@0)

谢谢你。原来我也想和她争孩子，但为孩子设身处地想一想，一个还不到两岁的孩子更需要妈妈；她这次对我是很狠心，但她对孩子非常好，她也离不开孩子，我也不想在这件事上伤害她。 -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 {34} (#1473436@0)
说实在的，在加拿大，我也争不过她。

很同情你，孩子是更需要妈妈一些。我之所以劝你把孩子留下是因为如果她真的有第三者，即使她对孩子再好，孩子也难保不受委屈。 -rolia(rolia); 2003-11-19 {406} (#1473461@0)
哎，说来说去还是孩子可怜。大人其实没什么的，时间一长也就算了，可孩子还这么小。我的一个中学女同学，挺文静的人，嫁人生女，一切都那么平静幸福的样子，没想到女儿四岁的时候她居然跟一个男人私奔了。之后她就跟我们都断了联系。我常常想，她会想孩子吗？她会内疚吗？激情终归是要过去的，和谁过，不还都是柴米油盐的事儿吗？不都大同小异吗？等一切都平静下来，大人可以回味，可以后悔。孩子却终归是一辈子都失去了母爱，或者父爱。

It's your time to listen this song <If you love somebody set them free> by Sting. -flyaway(F.); 2003-11-19 (#1473402@0)
估计你太太现在觉得你"无趣"了, 从有趣变无趣是一个渐进的过程, 但从无趣变回有趣, 这种逆转是很难的, 劝你做最坏的打算, 女人一但走到这一步, 不太好回头, 即使将来回了头, 可能你又觉得"无趣"了. -noproblem(大可以); 2003-11-19 (#1473442@0)
女人心一旦变了，就好比破了的镜子不会再还原。你唯一的筹码就是孩子，她要是连孩子都不要，我看你要不要她也没意义了，大家觉得呢？ -goldsky(泥锅泥碗泥滚蛋); 2003-11-19 (#1473528@0)

我太太是个不可多得的好女人，我只后悔没有好好珍惜，她要孩子，孩子是她的命根子。我不想撕破脸争孩子，我只想挽回她的心，也挽救我儿子的快乐和幸福。 -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 (#1473566@0)

噢，那我想应该有外力促使她坚决离婚，不然，单身，自己带个孩子，这决心不容易下啊。。。不然你肯定伤她伤狠了。 -goldsky(泥锅泥碗泥滚蛋); 2003-11-19 (#1473585@0)

如果各种劝说都不起作用的话, 那就先分居吧, 三十几岁的女人还有个孩子, 做出这样的决定也不容易, 其中应该还有很多故事, 不管怎么说, 给大家一段冷静的时间然后再来决定吧. -firefox(火狐之雪花火锅非洲菊); 2003-11-19 {83} (#1473559@0)
孩子, 如果母亲要的话, 还是给她吧, 因为将来你总要再婚的, 孩子还是跟着自己的亲妈好点.

如果没有外遇的话，分居是个选择，我还有机会去挽回。但如果有外遇的话，分居就是散了。 -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 (#1473574@0)

不见得, 世界上的事情很难讲的, 如果你很爱她的话, 给自己一点信心. :)) -firefox(火狐之雪花火锅非洲菊); 2003-11-19 (#1473591@0)
1）我估计有外遇是肯定的。2）分居不见得就散。分居后，你与她之间的矛盾骤然消解，而她与情人之间的各种原来隐藏的矛盾突然凸显，一段时间后，她可能觉得还是你好，想回来，而那时你可能觉得情已尽了。离婚就成了必然之路。 -ddmzd(满意得直哼哼); 2003-11-23 (#1481275@0)

I would do If I would love her. 1. If you are not sure if she has a boyfriend, you cannot suggest anything. It will give you many problems of dealing with it. -allrichest(ifilucky); 2003-11-19 {962} (#1473567@0)
2. buy a flowers, rose for her, over 20 dollars. say sorry for her. you did neglect her feeling for long time. you will pay more attention to her feeling.
(it is enough, then go to cooking, cook what she likes, don't do more for today).

3. buy a gift for her over 200 dollars and for your son( 10 dollars is enogh). at another time, for example when you invite her for a dinner where she likes, give the gift to her. show her your love and feeling to her. tell her the love skills of love you learned from anywhere. let her know you are loving her.

4. If you have chance, do a sex love. you have to show your abilities to her. You have to do it at least for one hour. kiss her month, neck, leak her nipple, breast and her XXXXXX. let her have a crazy, phatastic, exiciting, romantic feeling. let her screaming. let her have a high point experience.

Now, she won't leave you, she will vergive you if she has a little feeling to you and your son.

Thank you. I am trying. -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 (#1473582@0)
如果我可以wild guess一下，大部分中国男人的爱可能在心里，但是女人是感性动物，需要感觉到被爱，被关注。权当这是重新恋爱。全心去追求你的所爱-你现在的妻子 -dropoutinmiami(饺子-持证潜水); 2003-11-19 (#1473650@0)

I am the wife -wifeishere(n/a); 2003-11-19 {1989} (#1473595@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛I am the wife. And thanks everyone for discussing all this seriously.
sorry I can not use Chinese now. Please bear with me
1. First I want to say, what ever happened between this 15 years, is way more than what we can tell you here.
2. Secondly, I know I hurt him very much this time, and honestly I don't feel good about myself for doing this.
3. He is a very good father. I have to admit it.
4. I am around middle 30's, with a child,, it is not a easy dicission on me, either.
5. we had very good time together, and we went through a lot like every one else here. He mentioned that we settled down quickly here in canada and have good life here. Yes, we did and we do. But it is not only because of god's blessing, it was also because of the hard work. Trust me, a lot of hard work, sweating and sometimes tears. Give you an example, I ended up having to work in very different area than what I did before.
6. I can say that for the past 15 years, family and him and now my kid is always my priority. I do whatever I can to contribute to this family, without a word. But what I realize is family should be driven by two people. Please don't take me wrong. I am not as aggressive as you would think., I never complained about his income. All I asked for him before was, please stand up and take the responsibility at the times I can not do so any more. I did not see that happening.
7. In English, they call spouse as "best half". what that means? For me, it means it is the place you can go to when you feel tired, when you need help, when you need care and love... It is so hard on me that when I realize I can only tell myself to be strong when this kind of situation occurred. And I have been strong for the last 10 years.
8. But when you get older, you realized that you are not at same energy level, and you can not do simple things as you used to. Is not it sad? But even worse if you still donot have that comfortable level on you can rely on your best half.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Good Luck ! best wishes! -banker(见面熟); 2003-11-19 (#1473607@0)
俺明白了。。。你没鼓励过或者锻炼过他吗？其实有时候女的越往前冲，男的惰性越强，索性甩手不管了，天也不回塌下来的，试过没？男人会本能的出来面对的，给他机会，我不信他真不行。不过我依然理解你，非离婚不可？30岁面对将来的大风大浪真的一点顾虑没有？哪个值得？ -goldsky(泥锅泥碗泥滚蛋); 2003-11-19 (#1473620@0)
我理解, 其实一句话, 就是现在你终于知道了你所想要的, 可能也真的找到了你所想要的(SORRY), 可是, 现在你有的真的不是你想要的吗, 将来要拥有的又真的是你想要的吗? 这是一个很重大很重大的决定, 三思再三思啊. -firefox(火狐之雪花火锅非洲菊); 2003-11-19 (#1473621@0)

never try, never know :PP -ningxin0809(雁影行洲); 2003-11-19 (#1473634@0)
thanks for your understanding -wifeishere(n/a); 2003-11-19 {672} (#1473647@0)
I am not a very talktive people and also most of times, i talk about things in a very soft mannger. I won't after people if I realize what I ask is not what he wants to do. I will take on and hope people can realize later.

I tell myself that I do whatever I can to protect my kid. I know the huge impact on my son and I am so afraid that I make the wrong dicision.

just share with everyone here, the lesson I learn is,
please treasure whatever you have and let him/her know. DONOT take things granted. Please stand up and take the responsibility to be a mother/father/wife/husband.
As long as love and care is alive, everything else is simple, or managable.

先别着急着定了性, 给他一点时间让他证明给你看嘛, 男人有的时候很粗心, 自己脆弱的时候就告诉他, 我想他不会不借个肩膀给你用用吧. 旧的还是比新的好啊, 毕竟已经磨合了15年啊. :) -firefox(火狐之雪花火锅非洲菊); 2003-11-19 (#1473670@0)

Can't agree more. -henhen(哼哼, 找工ing ^_^); 2003-11-19 (#1473693@0)

You know what? I can feel you must be very sad and feel so tired.Don't know how to say. Best wishes! -flyaway(F.); 2003-11-19 (#1473672@0)

yes I am. and very very much.. -wifeishere(n/a); 2003-11-19 (#1473679@0)

Please calm down and do not make the rush decision right away. As a wife/mother, I can feel you are very exhausted, physically and mentally. -clear(clear); 2003-11-19 {450} (#1473727@0)
Stressful work, endless household chores and child care may have put you in the depression and depression may cause us to lose energy, lose patience. I experienced the similar fatigue when my daughter is young, now my daughter is almost four and I feel much better. Please take some time for youself to relax, do something you really enjoy. Make yourself happy and self-contented, then you will see the sunshine rather than the darkness in your life.

Thanks for sharing. -wifeishere(n/a); 2003-11-19 {178} (#1473810@0)
One day I felt so bad when I saw the old pictures. Back ten, tweleve years ago, I was such a sunshine girl when I graduated. Now I just feel myself getting heverier and heverier.

I miss those times too, but we should get the best out of every age group, for ourselves and our family too. -clear(clear); 2003-11-19 {151} (#1473901@0)
If you focus on more positive side of our life, the valuable kid, the financially stable life compare with some immigrants, you will feel very blessed.

Reverse your sight and thinking differently, you may have different solution, blessing your family. -noproblem(大可以); 2003-11-19 (#1473624@0)
based on your description, almost half of the couples should be seperated. Good luck to you. -ningxin0809(雁影行洲); 2003-11-19 (#1473627@0)

Good point! -rolia(rolia); 2003-11-19 (#1473663@0)
Half of all the couples do separate eventually. -anewgoodman(aNewGoodMan); 2003-11-19 (#1474621@0)

我喜欢你这样的态度和说话的方式. -timhudson(As); 2003-11-19 (#1473631@0)
it is not an easy decision for both party and maybe that is nobody’s fault. If, just if, you could see your happiness is based on the going alone but not just give your husband a color see see. -lubx(黑白世界); 2003-11-19 (#1473632@0)
有了外遇就明说吧，还找出一大堆理由。没有比较就没有鉴别，看上了别人也不是你的错，是你的丈夫不怎么努力。爱和关怀不只是接受，也是付出。 -pyramid(树木); 2003-11-19 (#1473640@0)

dd, too naive r. -mssg(mssg); 2003-11-19 (#1473655@0)

I think you are the one who is naive, honestly. :) -pyramid(树木); 2003-11-19 (#1473714@0)

泥这人咋这样说泥？ -goldsky(泥锅泥碗泥滚蛋); 2003-11-19 (#1473680@0)

这叫透过现象看本质，要是没有外遇，算我没说。:P -pyramid(树木); 2003-11-19 (#1473688@0)

谁说不是泥？但是就这么分手，将来99%会后悔的，1%琢磨是不是该后悔，对不划算牙 -goldsky(泥锅泥碗泥滚蛋); 2003-11-19 (#1473692@0)

我其实是支持分手的，只不过不喜欢遮遮掩掩，结婚自愿，离婚自由嘛！:) -pyramid(树木); 2003-11-19 (#1473709@0)

宁拆十座庙，不毁一门亲，你说泥咋就不知道泥? -goldsky(泥锅泥碗泥滚蛋); 2003-11-19 (#1473719@0)

时间是检验真理的唯一标准，可惜这个世界上没有卖后悔药的。 -pyramid(树木); 2003-11-19 (#1473731@0)
he's still too young. :P -lazycat(三脚猫); 2003-11-19 (#1473735@0)

如果人有预见性，那多好呀！早知现在要离，当初何必结呢？如果早知将来会后悔，现在又何必离呢？看来，只有珍惜现有的幸福，才是上上策。当幸福的感觉已逝，不好挽回啊。 -pyramid(树木); 2003-11-19 (#1473756@0)

an old saying "planning can't catch up with changing" -lazycat(三脚猫); 2003-11-19 (#1473779@0)

我一直对你印象不错，可是你这次的帖子实在让人讨厌——凭哪一点你可以这样随便讲话？ -cube(又见炊烟); 2003-11-19 (#1474223@0)

这是他的一贯风格。小心，待会他急了连你都咬一口。 -johnnyhatesjazz(Rock and Roll); 2003-11-20 (#1475520@0)

你说话怎么这么武断呢，这种事情也要用愤青的态度？ -jade(冬眠的水草); 2003-11-20 (#1475515@0)

很有同感，关于energy level和comfort zone；我感到你累了。如果我可以提个建议的话，我建议，有很多workshop，设在风景优美的地方，让couple放松，有counselor，也有group support，试试这个。我感觉会很有帮助。 -dropoutinmiami(饺子-持证潜水); 2003-11-19 {139} (#1473644@0)
有时我们get stuck in one reality，凭借自身的力量很难改变；外界环境的变化会改变这样的reality，在轻松的环境里把问题分解了。其实很多就是心境。
再坚强的女人也需要关爱, 需要丈夫坚实温暖的臂膀. 不管怎么说, 三思而后行, 祝福你们. -rom(红蚂蚁); 2003-11-19 (#1473664@0)
Bless you. Just think it over. -henhen(哼哼, 找工ing ^_^); 2003-11-19 {208} (#1473668@0)
Normally couples are not 50-50 contributors. There are lots of unaccountable stuff. Think it over what you have in the family, not only how much you paid or suffered.

But, if your love is gone, you go.
Will everything be better if you divorce? How do you know you will not be tirer afterwards? If you want a divorce just because this, please think about it. -rolia(rolia); 2003-11-19 {238} (#1473681@0)
If you have no other reason, then it is enough, your husband have learned a big lesson from these days. If you have other reasons, talk it with your husband, get understand. I think it's not good to hide other reasons, if there's any.
i'm a third party -patpat(胡侃 - 乱侃); 2003-11-19 {410} (#1473711@0)
i appreciate the points made by both of you.
I'm with mssg however in that change is the only sure thing in this world. That also proves as husbands and wives we all should appreciate these changes and always prepare to embrace and accept them when time's calling for it. In this sense i'm behind you as long as you have, unfortunately, made your case clearly to him.

It's never been an easy decision.
我能理解你的感受, 因为我跟你有类似的经历. -smilingears(微笑的耳朵); 2003-11-19 {1158} (#1473750@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Like you said, what ever happened between this 15 years, is way more than what we can tell you here. 每一个婚姻都有自己的故事, 说不清, 道不明, 只有自己才知道. 所以不想对你们的婚姻发表看法.
我同意, family should be driven by two people. 但两个人的target不可能是完全一样的. 我不知道你的target是什么, 是不是可以尝试着slow down a little bit for a while想想是否自己的target和你LG的target真的是大相径庭呢? 从你们所说的看来, 你应该是个主外的. 想想你遇到困难的时候, LG有没有给你过支持?
15年的婚姻, 能够走这么久, 不是很容易做到的. 就是再找个人, 也得打个问号, 是不是能象这样走上15年. 给自己一点时间, 别急着做决定, 最主要的是别让自己后悔.
我是一个人来加拿大的, 给LG办了移民, 但是他没有来, 在办移民之前, 问题就有了, 离婚的念头就有了. 可忧郁不决, 怕自己是浮燥造成的, 也害怕一个人的生活. 来了这里, 生存的压力把任何浮燥的可能都降低到了最低点, 分居了两年多, 终于离了. 将来会怎么样仍然是个未知数. 希望不会后悔吧. 至少到现在没有.
我们的情况, 成长背景很不一样, 受教育背景不一样, 工作领域也很不一样. 他基本上不懂英语, 所以在这里完全没有混的可能. 不象我到哪里都一样. 我们没有小孩.
离婚如果真能让你得到relief, 未必是件坏事. 拆一个家容易, 想想建一个家花出的时间和心血和精力.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

I agree I and him may have different targets. -wifeishere(n/a); 2003-11-19 {202} (#1473892@0)
In fact, as he said, he is more relax and wants to enjoy life. He wants good things (big house, nice car..) more than I do. It is not easy for us to be here and together after all these years.
really.

那么能问一下: what's your ideal family in your mind? and what's your target? Enjoying life and more relax, big house and nice car are not bad target. Very practical i think. -smilingears(微笑的耳朵); 2003-11-19 (#1473964@0)
Big Horse and nice car will never bring you real relief and happiness. It's from the person who you share your life with. you may loss what you have right now if you slow down in your career, -pliss(夏季周末如金); 2003-11-19 {254} (#1474670@0)
but think about over. does family mean more to you? West people tend to be honest to themselves but this doesn't mean they don't take their family into consideration. Think it over and once you make a final decision, be prepared never turn around back.

你暗示你先生沒有負起他應負的責任，而你先生覺得自己已經做的夠多得了．清官難斷家務事．如果你沒有外逾，分開住一段時間可能有利于改善你們的關係． -rollor(Rollor); 2003-11-19 (#1473772@0)
你要什么要告诉他, 你不告诉他他就永远不知道, 男人就是这么笨. 靠四目凝视是不行的. 这是多少女性用血和泪学来的真理. 你应该在第7年的时候就知道这个道理了. 那个心碎了的丈夫: 我的心都碎了. -uvw(没完); 2003-11-19 {279} (#1474219@0)
可是做男人不能满足于"我没有错啊". 得零分是不行的! 一定要是正数才行! 你太太在第7年的时候就应该让你明白知道这个道理了, 你居然又混了8年.

不管有外语无外语, 答应她可以离婚, 但要求必须先分居一年后离. 然后尽最大努力好好表现, 跟那个外语 or whatever on her mind 竞争. 然后听天由命.

don't know who you are, but -wifeishere(n/a); 2003-11-19 {405} (#1474733@0)
I like your message. I just want to ask, if the other part ignore what you are asking, what you should do?
I did express my feeling in the past 15 years, most of the time, no response..
very sad, but very true..
you want to know what I had asked him? Maybe he is the better people to tell you..
believe me, I did not ask too much... other wise, he won't be here today and tell every one all this...

I feel for you. -uvw(没完); 2003-11-20 {145} (#1476109@0)
Try marriage counselling. Give him one last chance. Maybe what he needed was just this final push, which you should have given him long time ago.

过几年你有发现还是不合适，还有你想得到的，就着样换啊换啊，一直到老，没人再换了，怎么办？ -ttl(有羊肉没馍了); 2003-11-19 (#1474356@0)
古训呀古训,真是有道理 -flyingpig(小飞猪); 2003-11-19 {55} (#1474401@0)
女子无才便是德.

------- ".....我KAO, 谁扔的砖头"
我太了解你的感受了，因为我的情况和你非常相似，只是婚龄没有你长，也没有小孩。 -iknow(iknow); 2003-11-20 {898} (#1475126@0)
我结婚2年，老公现在国内，几乎从我刚结婚起，就经常冒出想和他离婚的念头。我也无数次的想在Rolia上发帖子，听听大家的意见，因为我太难作决定了。我老公是个非常善良的人，对家人朋友都很真挚，真的是个非常好的人。但他也是很懒散，不思进取，(就连我们结婚以后，怎样去建设我们的小家庭，他也从不考虑)，而且性格也比较懦弱，每次一遇到什么困难和麻烦事，他总希望我去解决，他给我的感觉就是一个躲在女人背后的小男人，而且每次当我和别人有了争执(当然这种事情很少)，他害怕自己卷进来，在没有弄清事情之前，他总是要说我不对，每次都是，需要说明的是，我并不是一个强悍，刁蛮，喜欢无理取闹的女人，相反，我是一个害羞，温顺的人。一想到我将一辈子面对家里这个支撑不起家庭，让我不能依靠的男人，我的心底就泛起一股寒意，我将和这样的人过一辈子，当我需要帮助时，他帮不了我，当我在外面受了伤害，他会说是我不对。他在近期即将来加，他没有专业，英语也很差，我这一段时间都非常苦恼，总觉得自己走错了一步，就步步错，我真不知道该怎样面对我们的未来。

奇怪啊~他这么的一无是处当初你为何嫁给他呢？？？？？ -elvishcat(绿茶㊣目光炯炯); 2003-11-20 (#1475127@0)

爱情是盲目的嘛. 很多人谈恋爱的时候并不是用理性去考虑问题. 结婚时也不会考虑将来会怎么样. -smilingears(微笑的耳朵); 2003-11-20 (#1475681@0)

您老的意思是, 只会用下半身思考罗? -xianyu(咸鱼,翻了73次身); 2003-11-20 (#1475698@0)

您一定不是女人.:) -smilingears(微笑的耳朵); 2003-11-20 (#1475729@0)

所以先用上半身思考 -xianyu(咸鱼,翻了73次身); 2003-11-20 (#1475755@0)

我和他恋爱了2年，开始交往时觉得他还很不错，我们也比较相投， -iknow(iknow); 2003-11-20 {825} (#1476074@0)
最重要的是觉得他人很善良，我一直认为自己是一个很单纯的人，在恋爱问题上一直没有安全感，很害怕遇到一个猜不透，摸不透的男人，总觉得在选择老公上，最重要的就是要人品好，本性善良。随着交往深入，我也渐渐发现了他的这些缺点，也意识到这对于我们以后的生活有可能是个很大的问题，虽然体会不象现在这样深刻，但我那时已经没有勇气离开他再开始一段新的感情，我总是想：这一个不好，下一个又会怎么样呢？再加上我那时年龄已经不小了，父母和亲朋好友总是说，世上没有十全十美的人，鞋子里总有一个地方让你不舒服，因此我几经挣扎最终还是和他结了婚，而且那时候幻想，他成了家，会慢慢担负起一个男人对家庭的责任，但这么2年来的实际情况实在让我失望。我不是没有鼓励过他，肯定过他，但他依旧懒散，怯懦，得过且过，我以前是一个比较积极的人，但现在我看不到希望，对我们的未来没有憧憬，人也变得消沉，颓废，觉得人生毫无意义。在我们的婚姻问题上，我旁徨了很久，至今无法解脱。

坦白的说您犯下了一个严重的错误： -elvishcat(绿茶㊣目光炯炯); 2003-11-20 {1308} (#1476461@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛千万不要为了年纪大了亲朋好友催促，就找个人赶紧嫁了；千万不要以为反正人人都有缺点，换别人也是这样就凑府嫁了。因为每个人的道德标准生活理念和心理底线是不同的，有些缺点在别人看来是可以忍受的，但换你却可能是天大的原则问题，因此别人的意见只能做参考，婚姻的鞋子是穿在你自己的脚上的，冷暖还得问自己:'')
在做出结婚的决定前，应该把对方的缺点一一陈列，扪心自问哪个是自己可能这辈子都无法忍受的（不要存改变对方的侥幸心里，这些缺点如果要忍就做好忍一辈子的心理准备），也不要只关注对方的优点，对人而言，优点转化成缺点远比改掉缺点容易的多。
在我看来，爱是最重要的基础，爱是包容对方的源动力，爱是双方为彼此而努力改变自己的源动力。讲个极端的例子：对于不懂事的孩童所做出的不可理喻的行为，大人往往能够包容和付出耐心，那是因为无限的关爱。有时候，把LG当成孩子看，或许你能宽慰很多，当然啦，前提还是爱:'')
我不主张没有爱的凑府过日子，也不主张轻率的分分合合，我们都是成年人，应该首先搞清楚究竟什么对自己是最重要的，其他不是很重要的最好能包容还是包容吧。再就是，凡事不要先想对方怎么怎么不好，先想想自己做的如何。与其寄希望于改变别人，不如先改变自己来得更容易些，我们无法左右别人的行为，但是可以左右自己的想法，对嘛？:'')
呵呵，别看俺说起来头头是道，未必轮到自己时就能做的好。所以人还是应该有朋友，至少能提供一个不同的看问题的角度:'')我的这些话未必对你有用，如果能够缓解你稍许的忧愁，也就欣慰了:'')
祝你早日幸福快乐起来~~更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

奇怪, 天下nice的男人多了, 你是嫁老公还是找个同住的partner? 困惑加不解. -mashimaro(流氓兔;我就是贪吃); 2003-11-20 (#1475134@0)
I don't know what to say to your case, but it is really a common situation many couple have met. Three choices: -earthcitizen(地球公民); 2003-11-20 {221} (#1475156@0)
1. change yourself, just accept it.
2. trying to be a good teacher, train him.
3. divorce.

I would like to suggest you trying 2 firstly, but I really doubt whether it works or not, as it is not easy to train a adult.
找丈夫又不是找儿子，他恐怕有恋母情结，未来挺替你那个什么的 -goldsky(泥锅泥碗泥滚蛋); 2003-11-20 (#1475379@0)

I have to say you are a smart woman after I review your post again, I don't want to say too much about your marriage, you can refer to #1475156 for my view if you want to know. -earthcitizen(地球公民); 2003-11-20 {191} (#1475161@0)
Here I would just like to suggest you finding some ways to release the pressure you've encountered sometimes, the point is you might need to change your ways in handling pressure. Good Luck.
You will be wrong and regret later, if you really seperate with him...The most important thing in the marriage is whether he loves you yes or not.. -shuguo(blue ice); 2003-11-20 {140} (#1475467@0)
"Old is always good. ", some times I think so, especailly in Canada.

If you tried to seperate, you would know, but it would be so late.
I had the same experience as you do. -whowillloveme(ChineseDoll); 2003-11-20 {323} (#1475558@0)
I separated 7 months ago because of the exactly same feelings and same reasons. During the 7 months, I was trying to live a life of my own with my little did. I feel much happier and now I've got a new boyfriend and am thinking to move on a little bid. It is a good move, I understand you 100%. You will feel much happier.

a 2-day new BF. HAHA, I will say funny instead of happier. New house,new car, 8K+.Is that you ? Keep an eye on your BF. -freeport(别再赔了，别再赔了); 2003-11-20 (#1476694@0)

You are wrong. I had him when I wrote the question. I just wanted to hear some oppinions from others. -whowillloveme(ChineseDoll); 2003-11-26 (#1485764@0)

If there's still love and respect between you two, you should try your best to stay together. Otherwise, if the only thing left is hatred and disdain, it's time for a divorce. -woodhead(Happy wood-head); 2003-11-23 {215} (#1481261@0)
B.T.W, do you really think you could have a better life without him? Or you think you could find a better man? You know, people somehow always fall in love with the same type of people.

No marriage is perfect.

the things are not going so far. If You really love her, you have to do like this. -allrichest(ifilucky); 2003-11-19 {954} (#1473666@0)
1, you are not sure whether she has a boyfriend. you cannot suggest she has. If you think so, you will have many trobles of dealing with it.
2. Buy a bund of flowers, rose, over 20 dollars. give to her after work. say you are sorry to neglect her feeling for long time. you feel sorry to her. but, you love her. then go to cooking, cook what she most likes.
3. buy a gift to her (over 200 dollars) and a gift for your son (10 dollars is ok). At another time, for example when you invite her for a dinner where she likes, give her the gift. tell her you are careless for your lovely wife. you will change yourself.
4. Have a good time to make a sex love. You have to at least do it for one hour. you have to show your abilities and capabilities. kiss her month, neck, body, leak her nipple and XXXXXX. let her have a romatic, exciting, phantastic, unforgettable sex expereince. let her scream, let her have a high point . she will be happy with you
妻子出来说话了, 丈夫又去哪里了? -rom(红蚂蚁); 2003-11-19 (#1473686@0)

其实我觉得这样交流下真的挺好。丈夫一直都很克制，顾全大局，念着妻子得好；而妻子也是模范妻子/母亲，难得的一对夫妇。希望他们能work it out，如果不能，相信他们仍然会是朋友，仍然会一如既往地爱他们的孩子。 -dropoutinmiami(饺子-持证潜水); 2003-11-19 (#1473699@0)

you are very nice. :-) -henhen(哼哼, 找工ing ^_^); 2003-11-19 (#1473705@0)
说实话，老觉得你肚子里馅儿太少，留下的空间都给气儿占了。。。难以控制难以控制哪！ -goldsky(泥锅泥碗泥滚蛋); 2003-11-19 (#1473728@0)

:))) -wise(不通啊不通); 2003-11-19 (#1473732@0)
哦，是吗？：） -dropoutinmiami(饺子-持证潜水); 2003-11-19 (#1473765@0)

15年的感情出现这种局面, 当事人不知翻来覆去想了多久了. 祝福他们吧. -rom(红蚂蚁); 2003-11-19 (#1473733@0)

网上大家有话直说，我的看法：1，爱依然不够深 2，女方个性太强，这在单身女性中很多，而且这对婚姻的杀伤力极大 3，相信是3输结果 -wise(不通啊不通); 2003-11-19 (#1473698@0)

dd, too naive r. -mssg(mssg); 2003-11-19 (#1473702@0)

Appreciate all the helps -wifeishere(n/a); 2003-11-19 {535} (#1473706@0)
i appreciate all the helps. It was his choice to post all this. I don't want to blame him here or say it is my fault. If things can be so simple, life would be simple too.
Whatever happened, it happened. No point to go back to say it is my fault or his fault.
Looking forward, anything we can do better in relationship is far more important.
If this discussion can let him feel better, or release the emontion a bit, I will keep it going.
And if anything here can be helpful to any of you, that would be more than I ever ask.

best wishes to you! but divorce is a very serious decision. Think it carefully! It may hurt you more. -lazycat(三脚猫); 2003-11-19 (#1473729@0)
good luck! 不过离婚是我认为人生一大恶事，能免则免吧。 -goldsky(泥锅泥碗泥滚蛋); 2003-11-19 (#1473734@0)

离婚不是什么大不了的事. 生活在乏味的婚姻里才事大. -rom(红蚂蚁); 2003-11-19 (#1473743@0)

你牛！今天离了没？ -goldsky(泥锅泥碗泥滚蛋); 2003-11-19 (#1473783@0)

充分必要条件尚不满足, 没离 :-P -rom(红蚂蚁); 2003-11-19 (#1473824@0)

I can 100% understand your feeling because myself is a hardworking woman too. Life is really not easy for women like us. But I suggest you seperate a while and cool down a little bit before divorce. -wander2001(猫行天下); 2003-11-19 {209} (#1473769@0)
If in this period you really feel better without him, maybe divorce is a good choice. Maybe you will find he can still give you "support" and that's still important to you, then you may change your opinion.
找到幸福的人，就会往前看。还没有找到的呢，就容易怀念过去。忘记某个人最好的办法，就是找别人代替。:P -pyramid(树木); 2003-11-19 (#1473823@0)
Wife is an excellent and mature woman. I agree divorce. Sometimes, separation will be more helpful for the exhausted life. A better solution for their family. Maybe they will remarry if they are matched couple. -summerlover(loveautumn); 2003-11-19 (#1473847@0)

我是观察过很多夫妇，离了再复婚的，很少。说明了什么问题？ -dropoutinmiami(饺子-持证潜水); 2003-11-19 (#1473857@0)

Trust is broken, i think. and it's hard to rebuild trust between couples since divorce. 即使被提出离婚的人说自己能还有足够的信心重建trust, 先提出离婚的人也未必会有. 总之, 离婚对双方都是伤害. -smilingears(微笑的耳朵); 2003-11-19 (#1473989@0)

我的感觉是有很多原因和障碍使得我们停留在婚姻里，一旦婚姻这个联系没有了，很多时候我们是不会再选择以前的人的。如果真的让爱来维系婚姻，就问一下，我离了婚还会再嫁给他吗？ -dropoutinmiami(饺子-持证潜水); 2003-11-19 (#1474063@0)

好象没抓您的point. 婚姻并不是单单只有爱那么简单, 还有责任,义务等等. 爱情能变成亲情和友情那是最完美的. 我能理解在一起十年以内的离婚, 但还不能理解在一起十年以上的离婚. 也许有我现在还看不到的原因吧. -smilingears(微笑的耳朵); 2003-11-19 (#1474113@0)

我们邻居50岁离的，她说吵烦了，不想再搭上最后的黄金岁月！ -yihan(逸涵); 2003-11-19 (#1474121@0)

It's not easy to build up and maintain a family. But thinking of that, -xinlin(不得不中断学习一年的); 2003-11-19 {494} (#1473855@0)
it's also meaningless to say that one contributes /sacrifices more than the other in a family . As long as love still exists, you two can try to find a way to make things out.

Life is tough to everyone, and from your tone, I could tell that you might still have feelings to him. Besides, your partner still loves you so much... Please give him a chance, at least he is not the hopeless person who even has no gut to tell that he wanna improve himself so as to keep you home.

Good luck.
祝你好运气。我有时想：人想从婚姻中得到些什么，又失去了些什么。 -lilyba(sunshine困惑不懂装懂); 2003-11-19 {172} (#1473859@0)
有时你选择一个男人可以依托，但是往往你失去了自己做出选择，发展自己的可能性。
你选择一个男人在事业上帮助你，可能又会因为我们的传统的想法，感觉有些不平衡；或者有时觉得疲倦。
Honey, I still love you very much. I only beg for a chance, a chance for both of us, a chance for our lovely little one -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-19 {162} (#1474000@0)
No matter what happened to you, I will forget it and never mention it later in my life. I am the one who love you most in the world, please bring your heart home.

有孩子又有事业的妻子一定很是辛苦，哪个女人不憧憬有个体贴，浪漫的男人呵护自己，从最小的事情上多多分担一些。。。收入上差点其实不算什么。。。 -yihan(逸涵); 2003-11-19 {180} (#1474067@0)
还有有的时候我们可能太为将来忧虑而忘了ENJOY眼前的风景，建议每半年一家3口外出浪漫一次，生活多一些快乐的回忆，。。。15年，你一定比别人更知道什么事让她快乐，伤心，。。。祝福你们。。。
鼓掌, 加油啊! -rom(红蚂蚁); 2003-11-19 (#1474089@0)
not bad. keep going -expertune(伪劣); 2003-11-19 (#1474120@0)
sigh, really a touching story... -wander2001(猫行天下); 2003-11-19 (#1474122@0)
this post makes me crying like a baby, sigh -table(桌子来了); 2003-11-19 (#1474145@0)
"I will forget it and never mention it later in my life." heihei, I doubt about it. -holly(只羡厨师不羡仙); 2003-11-19 (#1474147@0)
give him a chance!!! -helenintor(akuna matata); 2003-11-19 {17} (#1474153@0)
只要有爱就有希望.

Give him a chance! (Anybody who wants to say so, please say it here) -tongcd(不明真相的总是群众); 2003-11-19 (#1474307@0)

说实话，我觉得LP的收入高于LG绝对是重要原因之一！！！哎，有些女孩子太要强，同时对理想的LG的要求也很高！殊不知，谈何容易？！这样的女孩只能嫁给比自己强的LG，而且能够跟的上LP发展速度的LG! -labourg(GeneralLabour); 2003-11-19 (#1474164@0)
I suggest you forget about her totally , and start a new life asap . this woman must be demanding . the love ended . all you can do is to give urself a relief . don't risk ur whole life on this woman . -newoffer1(newoffer); 2003-11-19 (#1474280@0)
Be a man, be strong ! Believe that she won't back because of your begging. -freeport(freeport); 2003-11-19 {315} (#1474481@0)
Move forward, do something for her : proceed the divorce, look for a place to move out, .....
stand up and take responsibilities, that's all your wife wants from you instead of begging.

Go ahead seperating, you have 1 year to show your wife you will have stand up and taken the responsibilities !

Do it !!!

Good Point! I believe the husband has asked for a chance for many times. If he could have the chane, you probably already got it. Best thing is to live well by himself. -pliss(夏季周末如金); 2003-11-19 {258} (#1474635@0)
Good Point! I believe the husband has asked for a chance for many times. If he could have the chane, you probably already got it. Best thing is to live well by himself. i believe this is the only way for him to take good care of his lovely kid after divorce.

another chance? do you know what she really wants?更何况她要的你根本给不了. -feather_angle(羽); 2003-11-19 {165} (#1474697@0)
心理的孤立无援不是一朝一夕行成的, 十几年的婚姻已把她的心磨累了. 记得一本小说里说"女人如果不能嫁一个好男人, 这一生也只能靠自己了",这里的好男人是指理解女人心的男人.
I bet you know what yr wife expects from you... Ask yrself how much you can change for her?...If you can not or do not like change yrself, let her go. -baygirl(冰淇凌); 2003-11-20 (#1475969@0)
Really asking for a chance or offering forgiveness? Stop your BS -worm99(worm); 2003-11-21 {1002} (#1476962@0)
Your subject and content were quite contradicting..
I believe you carefully wrote this note before you posted it, since it was a serious situation.

However, I really don’t know think you were begging for a chance. Sound like you were offering forgiveness to her instead., you said ‘you will forget it’ …You actually were giving her a chance...

You, who claimed loved her,, but you were also the one who didn’t care about her for 10-15 years. 15 years is a very long time.

What is your motive, by posting your story here? You use the public for judgment and you use your son as stake?

You seemed to be a person to take advantage of people, and use situation, even post a story to gain sympathy.

Based on this note …looks like you were just blaming and you were not a bit remorse for yourself.
Also using the public to judge someone you claim you love, I don’t understand how you claim your love and care.

Mr. Heartbreak it is time to change your nickname to Mr. Fullofshit.

I do understand you. I do. -gototheus(gototheus); 2003-11-19 {210} (#1474888@0)
I am considering the same thing. I have a son. He is only 1 year old.

As of my husband, I think I don't love him anymore. Frankly, I look down upon him. I tried not to do that, but I can't control myself.

请你学一下，然后解释一下 : 从父，从夫，从子，德，容，言，工 -freeport(别再赔了，别再赔了); 2003-11-20 {36} (#1475120@0)
五千年的文化可不是假的。。。。。。。

五千年的文化是不假, 可是社会结构总是在变啊. 人的想法也总在变啊. 不光是女人, 还包括女人. -smilingears(微笑的耳朵); 2003-11-20 (#1475692@0)

真心祝福，请一路走好 -stanlic(雾里看花); 2003-11-19 {528} (#1474889@0)
十五年的婚姻已经把那不堪一击的爱情冲淡。你一定是一个很好强，有抱负的女人。也许为此你维持了这段早已该结束的婚姻。因为你不愿意承认自己的失败，更何况婚姻－女人视为一辈子的大事。既然今天你为自己做了决定，请一路走好。只是想告诉你，现实生活是简单的，平淡的。当你不了解事情的真谛，你都认为很美。事实上，万物都一样，正因为有了缺点，优点才被体现。婚姻的美丽不在于有多少浪漫，而在于你与他共同走过。女人是男人的老师，男人会你的小屋下成长。你也会体会这之间的快乐。也许现在你不能体会，因为你在感情生活没有经历太多。真心祝福。

Good point!! -multipass(easylife); 2003-11-20 (#1476147@0)
wonderful comment! although it sounds that 你在感情生活上经历很多 -xianyu(咸鱼,翻了73次身); 2003-11-20 (#1476163@0)

由她去吧，留下来你更不舒服。不是毁于一旦，肯定是有人了。给她自由，她会后悔的。 -ttl(有羊肉没馍了); 2003-11-19 (#1474347@0)
冰冻三尺，非一日之寒，这份怨尤是多年累积而成的。Your wife said: "All I asked for him before was, please stand up and take the responsibility at the times I can not do so any more. "我认为，你需要反思一下： -firstwater(水水); 2003-11-19 {348} (#1474499@0)
Did you cherish her and give her the love she wants? Like you said, "她对我的怨气很深，觉得我不疼她，赖散，不思进取，无法依靠，不珍惜她". Is it true? 如果你能表示应有的关爱与感激之情， rather than taking everything for granted, this will not happen. 时至今日，也许你可以尝试与她交心，承诺改变，试试多年的感情还能否融化那日积月累的冰山. 祝你好运！
太可怕了，如果照这个逻辑就要分手，一半以上新移民家庭都在分裂危险当中。 -user7user8(nonick); 2003-11-19 (#1474549@0)
两片新马甲: heartbreak & wifeishere --> just for the topic? -anewgoodman(aNewGoodMan); 2003-11-19 (#1474624@0)
丈夫柔弱（从名字就可以看出），妻子好强，谁都没有错，离了都解放，只可惜那小儿郎。 -laotang(laotang); 2003-11-19 {422} (#1474651@0)
其实丈夫的性格也是妻子培养起来的。有人说，丈夫是弹簧，你强他就弱，你弱他就强。做妻子的自以为是，事事出头，丈夫因为性格的关系总是听之人之，久而久之，妻子竟抱怨丈夫无能起来。但这不能是离婚的理由，估计是有第三者介入，果如此，已没有挽回余地。

即便离婚，也没有必要心碎。你只是找错了人，而不是你做错了事。才30出头，人生的路还长着呢, 说不定你将来会找到真正相爱的人，一个欣赏而不是嫌弃你的人。离婚，也许为你打开一扇幸福之门！
惨....每个人在不同阶段都会有很难过的坎.that's life! -kiwilady(running); 2003-11-19 (#1474711@0)
婚龄太短给不出建议，只是觉得自己应该好好珍惜自己现在所拥有的，正如楼上所说，每个阶段都有不同的困难。 -fatbean(胖豆-满不在乎打着盹); 2003-11-19 (#1474879@0)
Wake up call for us, bystanders. -worm99(worm); 2003-11-20 {821} (#1474976@0)
Think about it...
If your marriage was going so well, there is absolutely no room for a 3rd person. So a 3rd person or not, is it important?

Read your own story ... Those past history and events actually drove your marriage to this stage. Yes, your heart is shattered today, probably hers might have been shattered long time ago.
You grade yourself GOOD. Are you someone that only care of yourself, and ignore other’s feelings? Only you can answer this question.

No advice for you... (for future ...read the rest of the note ...)

But for the rest of us, bystanders. We should learn from your heartbroken story. We are accountable for our own action and our destiny. We can’t take things for granted, until it is too late. For our love ones, respect, love, care and feel for them, will take us a long way.

I AGREE -simmersnake(步履无声); 2003-11-20 (#1475003@0)

有人让我来看看这个帖子，说有教育意义。我看了，想说两句：就是各打五十大板。 -simmersnake(步履无声); 2003-11-20 {892} (#1474980@0)
你们两个人的目标不一致。也缺乏交流。不要把男人想得太复杂。男人其实很简单，你告诉他你需要什么就是了。然后就鼓励他去做。不要怕他做错了。错了，就从头再来。妻子的毛病就是事事都操心，结果让老公无计可施。男人其实是需要女人的赞扬和承认的。一表扬了，就乐得屁颠屁颠的。有个法子就是，妻子停止干任何事，不做任何决定。一切由老公做主，你告诉他你想要金山，不管用什么方法，拿来就成。然后就鼓励老公去争取。慢慢的，老公习惯做主了，就自然会多承担家庭的责任了。妻子很能干，我不否认。但是，就象一个公司老板一样。你要是比你的员工还能干，那你不累死了。我们老把妻子比作领导，领导该怎么做？要好好想想。

最后说说老公，光有爱是不够的。你老婆不会跟你离婚的。她是恨铁不成钢，由原先的希望，变成失望，现在是绝望了。你还有机会。如果你能干到让老婆不用再出去工作的程度，你就没事了。对老婆的关心除了每天对她说“我爱你”，还有很多种表达方式。

我的话有人可能不爱听，但我也相信有人会认同我的观点的。

呜呼呀~~~明白人在这里哪~~:DD S劲hand一哈!!!! -elvishcat(绿茶㊣目光炯炯); 2003-11-20 (#1475032@0)

最后再说一句，我不相信妻子有外遇 -simmersnake(步履无声); 2003-11-20 {307} (#1474998@0)
。妻子的心情老公无法理解而已。老公要认真检讨，挽救这场婚姻的关键是老公。好好跟你妻子谈谈，重要的是了解她的心思。把拍领导马屁的全套功夫都使出来，毕竟，家是最最重要的。在你倒酶的时候，只有那个曾经跟你相依为命的人会始终在你身边。孩子长大后会离开你的，过他们自己的生活。你身边的那个人太重要了，要好好珍惜。

:'')我跟JJ的判断一致，妻子是没有外遇的。十分同意JJ最后那句话，妻子才是跟你过一辈子的人。LG也是啊，所以劝那个太太，再给你LG一次机会吧，好吗~~:'') -elvishcat(绿茶㊣目光炯炯); 2003-11-20 (#1475020@0)

他其实是DD 。。。：D -yihan(逸涵); 2003-11-20 (#1475022@0)

:O这么好的男人呀~是不是已经有弟媳妇啦？:-p -elvishcat(绿茶㊣目光炯炯); 2003-11-20 (#1475030@0)

都快当老2的爹了！还是RR要找的音最美男歌手呢！嘿嘿，瞧我揭发的，还是让他有点隐私吧：） -yihan(逸涵); 2003-11-20 (#1475037@0)

我说呢，男人哪有自学成才的呀，不都是咱们女人教育出来的:-p 嫂嫂真的好伟大呀~~:'') -elvishcat(绿茶㊣目光炯炯); 2003-11-20 (#1475043@0)

你说得特对：）俺今天就是喝了两口绿茶，这会还以ROLIA为床呢：） -yihan(逸涵); 2003-11-20 (#1475062@0)

:O那俺岂不是跟JJ同chuang.....啦~~:DDD -elvishcat(绿茶㊣目光炯炯); 2003-11-20 (#1475074@0)

确切点是同窗：） -yihan(逸涵); 2003-11-20 (#1475642@0)

我也不相信妻子有外遇，主要原因估计是人心不足蛇吞象，刚来加拿大的时候，都有工作，估计妻子还没空估计将来，现在条件好了，当然野心大了。离！支持离！既然到了这一步，求回来的也未必守的住。给你个文章看看 -arfeifei(老顽童); 2003-11-20 {3523} (#1475659@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛（陈作红）老婆这种东西是万恶之源ZT

这个贴子再谈点别的。我是不大喜欢总谈政治的，而是喜欢高兴谈什么就谈什么。
回顾我的一生，我觉得我这辈子干的最不正确的事就是找了个老婆结婚，而干的最正确的
事就是果断地与她离了婚。我觉得要不是我六年前与前老婆离了婚，就一定生生地被她毁
了。

我认为，如果拿全世界的老婆的素质来进行评比，那么中国大陆的老婆无疑是最差劲的老
婆。香港的老婆就要强得多，而台湾的女人有日本的味道，所以也很出色。

实际上，大陆的妇女好的就不多，包括我母亲在内也一样。有人会说: "哈!你一点都不孝
!"。其实，我现在也没和母亲翻脸，她要生了病还得陪她去医院。不是说的这些，而是说
大陆女的一大堆穷毛病。

首先是假。我见着中共当官的都不怕说真话，高兴怎么笑话他们就怎么笑话他们。可是见
着女的，被迫都要说一些假话。所以说女的就是假话的根源。比方说，我见着一位美丽女
子，对她说: "我想和你上床。"这本来是心里真心所想的事，可是一定引起她的愤怒，招
一通骂。我非得和她说别的，比如谈谈外国文学什么的。
如果你非常想上她，结果被她认为是流氓，不让你上她。而如果你表示不想上她，她就认
为你是好人，结果就让你上她。

如果你和一位大陆女子结婚，立刻就有一种被套牢的感觉，后悔的感觉。

正如一位美国女子在嫁给一位中国男人之后发表的感想那样，说:"在中国，你不是和一个
人结婚，你是和一群人结婚。"结婚后第一件要命的事就是要去应酬她那一大家子，岳父
岳母，兄弟姐妹，七大姑八大姨，然后一大堆亲戚就不断地来求你办各种事。我认为，中
国的贪官很多就是被这些亲戚朋友，尤其是老婆那个方向的亲戚所害的。就我的愿望，应
当用一把机关枪向所有亲戚来一个大屠杀，通通打死才过瘾。

第二件要命的事就是一结婚立即觉得钱不够花，所有的老婆都是贪得无厌的钱老虎，挣多
少都会觉得经济紧张，就好象有一把无形的手紧紧地卡住你的脖子。而一离婚后我立即觉
得自己的钱足足地够花，整天大吃大喝，根本花不完。

第三件事就是女人真她妈的事多，一结婚后立即觉得事情特别多，能活活把你累死。主要
是中国女的办事效率低，又有一股不怕麻烦的劲。比方说房子一周打扫一次就足够了，她
非得一天打扫两次，她妈的你愿意打扫就打扫好了，那是你的享受，不，她把这些算在为
你的服务上，这样你就欠了她的，然后把你支使得团团转。
而我一离婚后，立即轻松愉快，啥事没有，雇一钟点工，一个星期给我来打扫一次，顺便
把衣服床单的都洗了，也就才一百元钱。而且我这人用人不疑，把钥匙都给钟点工，让她
在我上班的时候来，我才不怕被偷呢，要什么拿去好了。

第四件事就是女人总要找男的纠缠，比方说女的都声称要支持男的搞事业，这件事情就很
混帐。其实，男的要女的支持的不是搞事业，而是要女的支持他不求上进，胡混乱混，打
麻将玩电子游戏什么的。就是由于有女的逼的，才让男的被迫去拍马屁往上爬，去求什么
上进，和别人做你死我活的撕杀。如果没有老婆，自己随遇而安，活得多愉快! 我一见到
女的写的征婚启事上写着什么"重感情，有事业心"
心里就气得慌，他妈的老子就不重感情，事业上就不想要有什么上进心。回想当年的婚姻
的日子，简直是我一生中最黑暗的日子。而离婚这六年来的日子则是我一生最幸福最愉快
的日子，想干什么就干什么，真他妈的爽! 我认为对于一般大陆人来讲，老婆对他的压迫
所造成的痛苦要远大于中共一党专制造成的痛苦。

而这几年去除了老婆的压迫，中共的一党专制我根本就感觉不到，那些当官的，你们说他
们贪，那就贪好了，干我甚事? 什么?发展下去中国会垮?我的身体发展下去还会死呢! 我
现在珍惜自己的每一天尽情享受，尽量吃好喝好睡好，将来就是死在我这套房子里好几天
没人知道，那也值了。别我现在有福不享去找一些什么事情来追求一下，反而耽误了现在
的享福，最后什么也没有捞着。

总之，在中国大陆，如果一个男的有了老婆，他就会变成一个自私的人，凶狠的人，变态
的人，没有自信心的人，使劲拍马屁向上爬的人，痛苦的人。

而如果一个男的没有老婆，就会变成一个豁达的人，大方的人，好脾气的人，有自信心的
人，乐观的人，不趋炎附势的人，随遇而安的人。更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

流水，这个可以上ROLIA晚会的预备相声：）效果绝对好 -yihan(逸涵); 2003-11-20 (#1475670@0)
你转帖的文章如果帖在"情爱悠悠",肯定会是某些已婚人士的靶子. 到是应该帖在水缸了,一定能激起千层浪的. :)) -pliss(夏季周末如金); 2003-11-20 (#1476202@0)
kao! I fule u! -xianyu(咸鱼,翻了73次身); 2003-11-20 (#1476223@0)

谁告诉你要离婚就一定有外遇? 而且, 向你这种把夫妻间的事拿到网上聊, -mashimaro(流氓兔;我就是贪吃); 2003-11-20 {316} (#1475131@0)
纯粹就是想把事越闹越大, 想不离都难.

再问多一句, 当初结婚是啥理由? 如果说爱是没有理由的, 为啥离婚就一定要有理由. 人,事,环境都在变, 只不过现在无法同步而已, 才会选择离婚, 彼此最好的青春都交给了对方, 你认为她就一定舍得吗?

你难过, 她也不好受. 建议你们还是自己沟通一下吧, 夫妻间的是是非非除了当事人,别人怎么可能清楚?
再写给heartbreak. I think she still loves you, but she is not in love with you anymore. You need to make her fall in love with you again. Tell her that it will happen, just like it happened some 20 years ago. 另外, -uvw(没完); 2003-11-20 {286} (#1475354@0)
你们俩的英文都不错. 应当考虑marriage counselling. 你们可以到当地市政府问一下哪里有这样的服务. 我知道每一对夫妻情况不同, 但你们的情况和有些本地人写的书里面的情况惊人的相似. 都是丈夫觉得好好的, 妻子突然就要谈一谈, 要立即离婚.

15 years is a terribly long time of feeling being ignored.

Thank you very much. -heartbreak(心碎); 2003-11-20 (#1475414@0)

好好把自己打扮一下，到她的单位去接她，还有孩子，然后去饭店。回家后BATH TOGETHER THEN MAKE GOOD LOVE。床上十分重要！让她觉得你很爱她，让她觉得作为女人很自豪，否则，要你有什么用，她经济又独立。 -howtimeflies(goodolddays); 2003-11-23 (#1481162@0)

一旦的感情毁于１５年! ---- 碎心! -huimin(huimin); 2003-11-20 (#1475528@0)
Be the man that she loves and will love forever. You said, you still love her very much, give both of you a period of time, try to make her fall in love with you again, becuase hse does not love you obviously. -dang_dang(当当); 2003-11-22 {131} (#1479448@0)
if you really really love her, do it hard and donot ask too much, just givie and keep trying, and wish her the best! God bless you!
谁能告诉我！到底他老婆要离婚的理由是什么？他老婆用的是什么理由？？没有人问过这个呀！这不是根本问题吗÷！ -lovedhyf(好想在一起); 2003-11-23 (#1481286@0)

我想对你们说!!! -sophia2003(SOPHIA); 2003-11-24 {764} (#1481701@0)
我想跟那位丈夫说,男人不可以总是以粗心作为婚姻失败的借口. 婚姻或者爱情,是需要双方共同经营的, 这不是一个人所能做到的.如果在过去的婚姻生活里,你没有用心经营你的婚姻生活,那么可以说你很失败并且不负责任. 任何年龄的女人都有重新选择的自由,以前你不曾珍惜,你敢对你的妻子保证,你今后一定回疼爱她吗!
我也想对那位妻子说,如果你并非有外遇而决定跟丈夫离婚,那说明你是真的看透了这场婚姻,并且对它已经完全死心. 就象另一位网友说的,如果女人没有一个现成的选择,而毅然离婚,那么这个决定一定很艰难! 如果你真的没有其他人,那么我很佩服你,并且祝福你!
可是如果你现在已经有了另外一个人,而且他是你提出分手的后备军的话,那我可以告诉你,你以后一定不会幸福!因为你背叛了婚姻! 况且,了解一个人不是一年半载的事情,你怎么能那么确定,这个人一定灰给你幸福呢?相恋的初期都是快乐美好的,千万不要因此而蒙蔽了双眼@

呵呵，我虽然没有结过婚。但是我也看出来了，这个妻子有外遇了。有些女人通常比较感性，会为了一些眼前的利益，一时的激情而放弃以前的一切的，放弃家庭甚至是孩子。而这样做的后果通常都是一生的悔恨。 -china_wei(单身帅哥); 2003-11-24 {338} (#1481475@0)
这样的女人通常只看到和未来的那个男人生活的好处，没有预见到其缺点和风险。盲目地认为目前的生活一点优点都没有。非理性的选择，苦果在后面呢，漫漫尝吧。我倒是想劝这个做丈夫的，放掉包袱，尽快调整好自己的生活。只要自己有一颗对生活的爱心，对孩子的爱心，将来一定会找到自己新的幸福的。面对现实，振作自己，学会放弃，人生道路毕竟很长呢，退一步海阔天空

我同意。任何的选择都要付出代价 -jennycc(杜子疼); 2003-11-24 (#1482843@0)
你没有结过婚，说这话就难怪了。 -simmersnake(步履无声); 2003-11-24 (#1483223@0)
婚姻有时象股市，没进过，那知风浪高。 -cuptea(一壶茶); 2003-11-24 (#1483242@0)
帅哥说得好，有外遇的一方通常都没有好下场。谴责三心二意不忠实于婚姻的人。 -ddmzd(满意得直哼哼); 2003-11-24 (#1483429@0)

冰冻三尺非一日之HAN。女人的感情尤如水龙头，一旦拧上，滴水不漏。尤其象你妻子这种好强的人，用软的没用。还是自己好自为之吧。 -jennycc(杜子疼); 2003-11-24 (#1482835@0)
555555555,好可怜的孩子啊~~~ 他投错胎了. -lidia(lidia); 2003-11-26 (#1485112@0)

@Florida

the things are not going so far. If You really love her, you have to do like this.

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