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看看大家的讨论吧。

本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛ar FRONTLINE,
I was really moved by the program, which reflected the truely current China, with a huge number of people living in rural area heavily exploited by all classes above them, with millions of workers having futureless life after devoted all their youth energy to the state factories.

As a grad student from China, my dad and mom all worked in state factores for their all life and now have a mere life. I personally know lots of childern who left home to cities only to end up with poignant exploitation. Your program bring my heart to China, which I love deeply.

Thank you for your effort to let the people here know what is happening in China, neither (communism) hell nor heaven.



vancouver, bc, canada



Dear FRONTLINE,


I would like to congratulate Ms. Sue William, her colleagues, and PBS FRONTLINE for this triumphal documentary ?China in the Red?

I hope more Mainland Chinese, not only Americans, will have the chance to see this program on your website, one day.

As a Taiwanese Chinese American, I have witnessed some of the similar problems facing today抯 China the way they challenged Taiwanese people years ago. Mainly the transformation from a society ruled by an authoritarian regime to a civil society of Constitutional Democracy and 搑ule of law? after all, both societies across the strait are deeply rooted in Chinese cultures and traditions (both good and not-so-good parts of Chinese culture).

Taiwan抯 successful transformation might have two advantages that China did not have: (1) Taiwan never had Communism implemented in the first place; (2) Taiwan抯 authoritarian regime, KMT, endorsed general principles of Constitutional Democracy, at least in public, that few Taiwanese people ever doubt the validity of a democratic civil society.

Without the advantages that Taiwan enjoyed, can China succeed in transforming? Personally, I am cautiously optimistic because of one powerful incentive ?Chinese people抯 desire and hunger to have a better life, if not for themselves, at least for their children. In the dire situation brought by economic changes, one Chinese mother expressed: "My life doesn't matter," says Zhang, through tears. "My only hope is that my daughter can go to college and live a good life."


Steven Chen
nyc, ny



Dear FRONTLINE,

Awesome, awesome, awesome. I am an Arizona Junior high history teacher and I must reference China's modern system frequently.

How cool to see the truth. My hundred students will be amazed. I used to teach them about the 2-child system. I can't wait to tell them about China's one-child policy that can be bought-off with money and connections. How insane our planet and it's cultures seem to us lucky Americans. And then the corrupt mayor who got the death penalty...how do I teach about that? If you think about it, there's arguments for both sides on that one.

Because of Frontline, I feel a duty to become a contributor to PBS.

Gary Fohs
bullhead city, arizona



Dear FRONTLINE,

Thank you Frontline and the producers for a well-done documentary on China in the reform era. While much English material has been written about the numerous and daunting challenges facing modern China, it's nice to see a high-profile TV program covering the issue and lending a sense of immediacy to the problems by presenting the lives of ordinary Chinese citizens bearing the social cost of these reforms.

Several segments had personal relevance (my grandma is a retired Capital Steel manager and an uncle former VP of a Shenyang SOE involved in the corruption scandal - and briefly shown in the program). Those portrayals were poignant because of their familiarity and accuracy. And precisely because of the documentary's faithful reflection of the current Chinese society on a human level, I hope it will give American audiences a better understanding to address any doubts, pessimism or impatience toward China's reform programs. Mainly, that while external and internal pressures applied toward China to accelerate its economic and political reforms is needed, there is a very real, and often prohibitive, cost in implementing them: harsh social and economic instability on the very people portrayed in the program - magnified in the hundreds of millions.

But above all else I hope programs like these and China's increasing presence in the media will help inspire us ("generation Y" oversea Chinese and ABCs) to channel our youth and energy to contribute and shape China's critical transition to a more liberal society. I sincerely believe that we have something unique and necessary to offer - especially in the area of better Sino-US relations.

Oh, and kudos on the soundtrack. Cui Jian for urbanites, Tian Zhen for rural farmers and Faye Wang for white-collar yuppies. Very impressive selections.

Brian Zhang
la, ca



Dear FRONTLINE,

An excellent program. I couldn't turn my eyes away, or my ears for that matter. I wanted to send thyroid medication to the woman with an obvious goiter, or help in some way. The woman whose husband had a stroke and was demoted also moved me. We are so spoiled in the West. I was disturbed a bit by the materialism of the successful marketing consultant. Why do we in the West export the worst of our values?

What I'd like to know is some more about the music, particularly the woman singing several songs that were not rock, but gentle songs, almost angelic. I don't see any credits which list the songs performers. If this information is available I would love to have it.

Karen Roberts
atascadero, ca

FRONTLINE's editors respond:
Producer Sue Williams talks about the music used in the film in her interview elsewhere on this site.




Dear FRONTLINE,

All I can say is, Wow!

I just spent the last two hours watching China in the Red through the PBS.org website from China. (Yes, it's true. It's not blocked here.)

I taught at a university in Northeast China during the same period that Ms. William's was filming this show and I can testify that she paints an utterly accurate picture of what I saw and experienced there during that time.

I am now on the faculty of Zhejiang University in southeast China but my heart remains with the people of the Northeast. I can assure your viewers that there are tens of millions of Feng Hui-Xiu's and Zhang Shu Yan's. And the difficulties of the children in gaining access to good education is on my "frontline" everyday.

Thank you to PBS and Sue Williams for showing the rest of the world that China is not a sea of faceless masses. Thank you for giving these great people face.

Chuck Allanson
hangzhou, zhejiang, china

FRONTLINE's editors respond:
According to those who have studied internet censorship in China over the past couple of years, there are variations, both geographically and over time, for a blocked site such as PBS. Read more about Internet blocking in the "Democracy" section of this web site.




Dear FRONTLINE,

What's so startling about this documentary is its complete lack of moral compass on the fundamental issues concerning every Chinese citizen.

It devotes the entire program to portraying the preponderance and enormity of China's economic problems and its social and cultural ramifications, with the unmistakable message that due to these economic distresses, all other issues such as human rights, press freedom, and democracy should give way to solving the economic problems first--the very ferocious Party line Beijing has been carrying out in suppressing millions of their fundamental rights in China. In fact, the very last concluding statement of the documentary comes from Wu Jinglian, the Chinese Government economist: If we follow the current path of the Party, China will overcome its overwhelming difficulties and there will be hope for China to become DEMOCRATIC!!"

Yes, there is the problem of corruption, which the program amply states, but two minutes after the devastating indictment of the Party's corruption by a young brave economist, the specific example given was the workshop boss in the Capital Steel who blames the rampant corruption on the job-seeking ordinary workers! In the eyes of producer Sue Williams, the Communist Party officials are CORRUPTED but not CORRUPT themselves, just like the hard-working, "universally loved" Shenyang Mayor Mu Sui-xin (an evil Party official who threw away millions of public funds at Macau's gambling houses, and who was the most hated man in entire Shenyang city by any standards).

The double moral standard on China in this film is also intolerable: if the filmmaker were banned from interviewing her audience in the Soviet Union, North Korea, Boston, or Washington DC, she would have been most violently protesting for press freedom infridgement, yet in her film, she was frequently banned from talking to her intended interviewees, but that's okay and all understandable, because, well, China is special, where human rights, press freedoms must give away to "Chinese characteristics." As a Chinese myself, I find this quite insulting and disgusting!

This conceptual bias has also led to numerous deceptive manipulations in the film. In order to stress the "harsh" life of a communist cadre in the Capital Steel, the film completely twists what was said in the Chinese original--the cadre says he lives in a place of only 600 "pingmi" (square METERS!, which is huge by Chinese standard), yet the English voiceover makes it "600 square FEET!!. Mistakes such as this permeates the entire documentary and I don't think it's just linguistic incompetence.

The most urgent task facing China is not a few more billions of tax payers' money in the West, but a lot more democratic institutions and unabashed condemnations from the civilized world on China's horrendous human rights violations.




Maochun Yu
annapolis, maryland



Dear FRONTLINE,


Thank you for viewing an excellent and timely film on China. This is one of the best documentaries I've watched in years.

In addition to the film, I find the discussions by the China experts on your "Democracy" section of this site particularly interesting and insightful, particular the remarks made by Ms. Ogden and Ms. Thurston.


V. M. Lam
san francisco, ca



Dear FRONTLINE,

What a wonderful of piece of journalism!

My biggest question on the program is: is there a clever or more humanistic approch to democracy? or what is democracy? Democracy is merely a ideal dream, or is it a model that everyone can copy? Is it possible to follow the path that people here in the states have paved for many years of breaking through all the obstacles?

China is exactly tring to find a way to make a transition to market economy. Yet look at the human suffering and emotional distress, I really doubt this is natural path for which all the common citizens of China would willingly to follow. ... Of course finding your own way is bloody tough, getting somebody else's idea is much more prefered. That's human nature.

I wonder if China in 20 or 30 years will become so preoccupied with western democratic doctrines or a total capitalist society that big corporations control every aspects of social life, put a little salt of communist, or whatever become then, authoritarian system. Polarization of wealth become so severe that government do whatever it can to glorify the riches. Social justice become entertaining isssue, government become corporations' agency.

I myself is an architect. I can design building for a comfort living. But I can't design social structure that will let all human live comfortably. I am sad because my gutt feeling is blaiming myself as incapable professional.


David Chen
nyc, ny

FRONTLINE's editors respond:
In the "Democracy" section of this web site you can read a discussion by experts on the prospects for democracy and other questions raised by the letter writer.




Dear FRONTLINE,

I hope there will be more unbiased portral of China like this in the future.

I grew up in a huge state-own factory in South China, went to Beijing for college, and then came to the United States for grad study. These have been big jumps in my life. The factory my parents worked for almost crashed down several years ago. My dad, 58 years old, lost his job with little compensation when my mom have been retired for several years. My sister, after a long-time argument with my parents, quitted her "steady work" with meager salary and left our hometown to look for jobs in another city. There are still stories going on in my family as well as millions of other Chinese families.

I appreaciate your excellent job in displaying life of ordinary people like my family and many of my freinds! I see the reforms and changes positively, while at the same time, I totally understand the painful experiences of many individuals in surviving or just adjusting to the dramatic transformations in every aspects of their life.






Anna Liu
los angeles, ca



Dear FRONTLINE,

What an incredible feat! I am a movie producer and my husband is a film editor. We enjoyed every moment of footage. We just returned from China about 3 mos. ago with our little girl who is the light of our lives. We watched your program with her sleeping peacefully in our arms. We wondered who her parents were, what was their situation? Did they abandon her because they could now afford to have children or because she was a girl? Were they peasants or from the city? Thank you for taking us past the concrete walls of the apartment buildings and inside the homes of people just like our daughter's biological family. It makes us feel closer to her and closer to her complex and beautiful birthplace of China. It also underscored a much treasure saying in the Chinese adoption community: Yi Nu Ping An "One child, peaceful and safe"


Danielle Lovett
los angeles, ca



Dear FRONTLINE,

The film was wonderful and I hope many in the US will appreciate our education program. Just about every parent was concerned about paying for their child's education.

My heart goes out to the daughter of the woman in Chestnut Flower Village who had to leave school because of her mother's illness. She just looked so broken. I made a vow last night that I will do what ever I can to put this girl through school. Eating $25 less a month is where I plan to start. I hope many others will give when a fund is set up here.

J manago
chandler, az



Dear FRONTLINE,

This is the best and most real picture about china.

Thanks for the contribution from the team.

Is it possible to have a video available?


Yong xie
tucson, az

FRONTLINE's editors respond:
The full program can be viewed online here on the web site.




Dear FRONTLINE,

Well PBS have done it again.

Frontline has to be the best programe on tv,a ll the stories are so inetrseting and i look forward to every thursday. Last night on China was one of the best documentaries i have every seen, as good as the BBC and CBC.

Brilliant.

Keep up the great work.

floyd gadd
st louis, mo



Dear FRONTLINE,

I am still unable to take the images of people interviewed from my mind. The steel factory worker, the lady with thyroid problem, the son who goes to the city to learn refrigration - to me their facial expression conveyed more than their words. I thank the folks behind "Frontline" for this excellent piece of work.

In mathematics, we have the concept of "necessary and sufficient". Evidently, for long-term irreversible kind of growth, it is "necessary" that there is political reform in China. Unless, there is transparent (corruption-free), plurastic and grass-root level democracy in China, the divide between rich and poor will just increase and the current economic growth may not be sustainable.

Compartively speaking, India has a functioning democratic system with high penetration level right into villages ("panchyat system"), unfortunately, highly-corrupt at the same time. Nonetheless, the growth in India seems to be of organic nature - slow and steady. More like an "elephant" as oppossed to "roaring tiger". More of "brick-and-mortar" variety versus "dot-commish" bubble.






Naren Chawla
fremont, ca



Dear FRONTLINE,


China in the Red was certainly an ambitious project and you suceeded in providing a glimpse of common citizens going through this cataclysmic change.

However, I do feel your focus on only the two extreme ends of the economic spectrum showed an incomplete portrayal of the people of China. For example, you ignorned the burgeoning middle class or even lower middle class who are responsible for much of the economic growth. To only use Mr. Zhang Wu as the example of a benefactor of the economic change is a disservice, bordering on bias.

Dai-Shan Wong
houston, tx更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
Report

Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 枫下茶话 / 社会 / 谁能看到pbs,现在在放FRONTLINE,介绍中国的纪录片,看了真让人心痛。
    • 名字叫China in the red!
    • 现在网上可以看了。
    • 看看大家的讨论吧。
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛ar FRONTLINE,
      I was really moved by the program, which reflected the truely current China, with a huge number of people living in rural area heavily exploited by all classes above them, with millions of workers having futureless life after devoted all their youth energy to the state factories.

      As a grad student from China, my dad and mom all worked in state factores for their all life and now have a mere life. I personally know lots of childern who left home to cities only to end up with poignant exploitation. Your program bring my heart to China, which I love deeply.

      Thank you for your effort to let the people here know what is happening in China, neither (communism) hell nor heaven.



      vancouver, bc, canada



      Dear FRONTLINE,


      I would like to congratulate Ms. Sue William, her colleagues, and PBS FRONTLINE for this triumphal documentary ?China in the Red?

      I hope more Mainland Chinese, not only Americans, will have the chance to see this program on your website, one day.

      As a Taiwanese Chinese American, I have witnessed some of the similar problems facing today抯 China the way they challenged Taiwanese people years ago. Mainly the transformation from a society ruled by an authoritarian regime to a civil society of Constitutional Democracy and 搑ule of law? after all, both societies across the strait are deeply rooted in Chinese cultures and traditions (both good and not-so-good parts of Chinese culture).

      Taiwan抯 successful transformation might have two advantages that China did not have: (1) Taiwan never had Communism implemented in the first place; (2) Taiwan抯 authoritarian regime, KMT, endorsed general principles of Constitutional Democracy, at least in public, that few Taiwanese people ever doubt the validity of a democratic civil society.

      Without the advantages that Taiwan enjoyed, can China succeed in transforming? Personally, I am cautiously optimistic because of one powerful incentive ?Chinese people抯 desire and hunger to have a better life, if not for themselves, at least for their children. In the dire situation brought by economic changes, one Chinese mother expressed: "My life doesn't matter," says Zhang, through tears. "My only hope is that my daughter can go to college and live a good life."


      Steven Chen
      nyc, ny



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      Awesome, awesome, awesome. I am an Arizona Junior high history teacher and I must reference China's modern system frequently.

      How cool to see the truth. My hundred students will be amazed. I used to teach them about the 2-child system. I can't wait to tell them about China's one-child policy that can be bought-off with money and connections. How insane our planet and it's cultures seem to us lucky Americans. And then the corrupt mayor who got the death penalty...how do I teach about that? If you think about it, there's arguments for both sides on that one.

      Because of Frontline, I feel a duty to become a contributor to PBS.

      Gary Fohs
      bullhead city, arizona



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      Thank you Frontline and the producers for a well-done documentary on China in the reform era. While much English material has been written about the numerous and daunting challenges facing modern China, it's nice to see a high-profile TV program covering the issue and lending a sense of immediacy to the problems by presenting the lives of ordinary Chinese citizens bearing the social cost of these reforms.

      Several segments had personal relevance (my grandma is a retired Capital Steel manager and an uncle former VP of a Shenyang SOE involved in the corruption scandal - and briefly shown in the program). Those portrayals were poignant because of their familiarity and accuracy. And precisely because of the documentary's faithful reflection of the current Chinese society on a human level, I hope it will give American audiences a better understanding to address any doubts, pessimism or impatience toward China's reform programs. Mainly, that while external and internal pressures applied toward China to accelerate its economic and political reforms is needed, there is a very real, and often prohibitive, cost in implementing them: harsh social and economic instability on the very people portrayed in the program - magnified in the hundreds of millions.

      But above all else I hope programs like these and China's increasing presence in the media will help inspire us ("generation Y" oversea Chinese and ABCs) to channel our youth and energy to contribute and shape China's critical transition to a more liberal society. I sincerely believe that we have something unique and necessary to offer - especially in the area of better Sino-US relations.

      Oh, and kudos on the soundtrack. Cui Jian for urbanites, Tian Zhen for rural farmers and Faye Wang for white-collar yuppies. Very impressive selections.

      Brian Zhang
      la, ca



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      An excellent program. I couldn't turn my eyes away, or my ears for that matter. I wanted to send thyroid medication to the woman with an obvious goiter, or help in some way. The woman whose husband had a stroke and was demoted also moved me. We are so spoiled in the West. I was disturbed a bit by the materialism of the successful marketing consultant. Why do we in the West export the worst of our values?

      What I'd like to know is some more about the music, particularly the woman singing several songs that were not rock, but gentle songs, almost angelic. I don't see any credits which list the songs performers. If this information is available I would love to have it.

      Karen Roberts
      atascadero, ca

      FRONTLINE's editors respond:
      Producer Sue Williams talks about the music used in the film in her interview elsewhere on this site.




      Dear FRONTLINE,

      All I can say is, Wow!

      I just spent the last two hours watching China in the Red through the PBS.org website from China. (Yes, it's true. It's not blocked here.)

      I taught at a university in Northeast China during the same period that Ms. William's was filming this show and I can testify that she paints an utterly accurate picture of what I saw and experienced there during that time.

      I am now on the faculty of Zhejiang University in southeast China but my heart remains with the people of the Northeast. I can assure your viewers that there are tens of millions of Feng Hui-Xiu's and Zhang Shu Yan's. And the difficulties of the children in gaining access to good education is on my "frontline" everyday.

      Thank you to PBS and Sue Williams for showing the rest of the world that China is not a sea of faceless masses. Thank you for giving these great people face.

      Chuck Allanson
      hangzhou, zhejiang, china

      FRONTLINE's editors respond:
      According to those who have studied internet censorship in China over the past couple of years, there are variations, both geographically and over time, for a blocked site such as PBS. Read more about Internet blocking in the "Democracy" section of this web site.




      Dear FRONTLINE,

      What's so startling about this documentary is its complete lack of moral compass on the fundamental issues concerning every Chinese citizen.

      It devotes the entire program to portraying the preponderance and enormity of China's economic problems and its social and cultural ramifications, with the unmistakable message that due to these economic distresses, all other issues such as human rights, press freedom, and democracy should give way to solving the economic problems first--the very ferocious Party line Beijing has been carrying out in suppressing millions of their fundamental rights in China. In fact, the very last concluding statement of the documentary comes from Wu Jinglian, the Chinese Government economist: If we follow the current path of the Party, China will overcome its overwhelming difficulties and there will be hope for China to become DEMOCRATIC!!"

      Yes, there is the problem of corruption, which the program amply states, but two minutes after the devastating indictment of the Party's corruption by a young brave economist, the specific example given was the workshop boss in the Capital Steel who blames the rampant corruption on the job-seeking ordinary workers! In the eyes of producer Sue Williams, the Communist Party officials are CORRUPTED but not CORRUPT themselves, just like the hard-working, "universally loved" Shenyang Mayor Mu Sui-xin (an evil Party official who threw away millions of public funds at Macau's gambling houses, and who was the most hated man in entire Shenyang city by any standards).

      The double moral standard on China in this film is also intolerable: if the filmmaker were banned from interviewing her audience in the Soviet Union, North Korea, Boston, or Washington DC, she would have been most violently protesting for press freedom infridgement, yet in her film, she was frequently banned from talking to her intended interviewees, but that's okay and all understandable, because, well, China is special, where human rights, press freedoms must give away to "Chinese characteristics." As a Chinese myself, I find this quite insulting and disgusting!

      This conceptual bias has also led to numerous deceptive manipulations in the film. In order to stress the "harsh" life of a communist cadre in the Capital Steel, the film completely twists what was said in the Chinese original--the cadre says he lives in a place of only 600 "pingmi" (square METERS!, which is huge by Chinese standard), yet the English voiceover makes it "600 square FEET!!. Mistakes such as this permeates the entire documentary and I don't think it's just linguistic incompetence.

      The most urgent task facing China is not a few more billions of tax payers' money in the West, but a lot more democratic institutions and unabashed condemnations from the civilized world on China's horrendous human rights violations.




      Maochun Yu
      annapolis, maryland



      Dear FRONTLINE,


      Thank you for viewing an excellent and timely film on China. This is one of the best documentaries I've watched in years.

      In addition to the film, I find the discussions by the China experts on your "Democracy" section of this site particularly interesting and insightful, particular the remarks made by Ms. Ogden and Ms. Thurston.


      V. M. Lam
      san francisco, ca



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      What a wonderful of piece of journalism!

      My biggest question on the program is: is there a clever or more humanistic approch to democracy? or what is democracy? Democracy is merely a ideal dream, or is it a model that everyone can copy? Is it possible to follow the path that people here in the states have paved for many years of breaking through all the obstacles?

      China is exactly tring to find a way to make a transition to market economy. Yet look at the human suffering and emotional distress, I really doubt this is natural path for which all the common citizens of China would willingly to follow. ... Of course finding your own way is bloody tough, getting somebody else's idea is much more prefered. That's human nature.

      I wonder if China in 20 or 30 years will become so preoccupied with western democratic doctrines or a total capitalist society that big corporations control every aspects of social life, put a little salt of communist, or whatever become then, authoritarian system. Polarization of wealth become so severe that government do whatever it can to glorify the riches. Social justice become entertaining isssue, government become corporations' agency.

      I myself is an architect. I can design building for a comfort living. But I can't design social structure that will let all human live comfortably. I am sad because my gutt feeling is blaiming myself as incapable professional.


      David Chen
      nyc, ny

      FRONTLINE's editors respond:
      In the "Democracy" section of this web site you can read a discussion by experts on the prospects for democracy and other questions raised by the letter writer.




      Dear FRONTLINE,

      I hope there will be more unbiased portral of China like this in the future.

      I grew up in a huge state-own factory in South China, went to Beijing for college, and then came to the United States for grad study. These have been big jumps in my life. The factory my parents worked for almost crashed down several years ago. My dad, 58 years old, lost his job with little compensation when my mom have been retired for several years. My sister, after a long-time argument with my parents, quitted her "steady work" with meager salary and left our hometown to look for jobs in another city. There are still stories going on in my family as well as millions of other Chinese families.

      I appreaciate your excellent job in displaying life of ordinary people like my family and many of my freinds! I see the reforms and changes positively, while at the same time, I totally understand the painful experiences of many individuals in surviving or just adjusting to the dramatic transformations in every aspects of their life.






      Anna Liu
      los angeles, ca



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      What an incredible feat! I am a movie producer and my husband is a film editor. We enjoyed every moment of footage. We just returned from China about 3 mos. ago with our little girl who is the light of our lives. We watched your program with her sleeping peacefully in our arms. We wondered who her parents were, what was their situation? Did they abandon her because they could now afford to have children or because she was a girl? Were they peasants or from the city? Thank you for taking us past the concrete walls of the apartment buildings and inside the homes of people just like our daughter's biological family. It makes us feel closer to her and closer to her complex and beautiful birthplace of China. It also underscored a much treasure saying in the Chinese adoption community: Yi Nu Ping An "One child, peaceful and safe"


      Danielle Lovett
      los angeles, ca



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      The film was wonderful and I hope many in the US will appreciate our education program. Just about every parent was concerned about paying for their child's education.

      My heart goes out to the daughter of the woman in Chestnut Flower Village who had to leave school because of her mother's illness. She just looked so broken. I made a vow last night that I will do what ever I can to put this girl through school. Eating $25 less a month is where I plan to start. I hope many others will give when a fund is set up here.

      J manago
      chandler, az



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      This is the best and most real picture about china.

      Thanks for the contribution from the team.

      Is it possible to have a video available?


      Yong xie
      tucson, az

      FRONTLINE's editors respond:
      The full program can be viewed online here on the web site.




      Dear FRONTLINE,

      Well PBS have done it again.

      Frontline has to be the best programe on tv,a ll the stories are so inetrseting and i look forward to every thursday. Last night on China was one of the best documentaries i have every seen, as good as the BBC and CBC.

      Brilliant.

      Keep up the great work.

      floyd gadd
      st louis, mo



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      I am still unable to take the images of people interviewed from my mind. The steel factory worker, the lady with thyroid problem, the son who goes to the city to learn refrigration - to me their facial expression conveyed more than their words. I thank the folks behind "Frontline" for this excellent piece of work.

      In mathematics, we have the concept of "necessary and sufficient". Evidently, for long-term irreversible kind of growth, it is "necessary" that there is political reform in China. Unless, there is transparent (corruption-free), plurastic and grass-root level democracy in China, the divide between rich and poor will just increase and the current economic growth may not be sustainable.

      Compartively speaking, India has a functioning democratic system with high penetration level right into villages ("panchyat system"), unfortunately, highly-corrupt at the same time. Nonetheless, the growth in India seems to be of organic nature - slow and steady. More like an "elephant" as oppossed to "roaring tiger". More of "brick-and-mortar" variety versus "dot-commish" bubble.






      Naren Chawla
      fremont, ca



      Dear FRONTLINE,


      China in the Red was certainly an ambitious project and you suceeded in providing a glimpse of common citizens going through this cataclysmic change.

      However, I do feel your focus on only the two extreme ends of the economic spectrum showed an incomplete portrayal of the people of China. For example, you ignorned the burgeoning middle class or even lower middle class who are responsible for much of the economic growth. To only use Mr. Zhang Wu as the example of a benefactor of the economic change is a disservice, bordering on bias.

      Dai-Shan Wong
      houston, tx更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • 这种讲述真实中国的片子怎么没有人注意呢?不是论坛上无聊的人很多吗?不是N多人说想回国吗?看看中国到底如何么。
      • 想下载,哪有?
        • 下载好像没有。因为它的节目还是讲成本的,不过在它的网站上可以买录像带。
        • 见猪头给的连接
          • 那个连接是网上直接观看的,好像没有看到下载。
      • 才出来几天,中国到底如何就不知道了,还要外国人告诉你?再有,那么多主流媒体上说中国好的,你就看不见?
    • 多谢,多谢,昨天看到三点多。慕隋新原来也和布什同学一样一脸正气的吗。
      • 中国的腐败是制度性问题,谁上去都腐败,不“一脸正气”也做不上去,这些人人格分裂。政客没有干净的,美国制度对他们的表演技巧要求高一些。
      • 我确实不知道隋的事情,但是中国因为腐败被整下去的官员大多数不是因为腐败本身,而是要不是太张扬要不是政治上有问题了。
    • thks a lot i am looking for it long time
      • I am from shen yang, the old shen yang is very important to china economic, but now it is reallay a burden for the Gov, I am luky enogh no need to worry for my parents pension. it is true in shen yang at least
    • same feeling. waht can we do, chinese are great
    • 真的是一个好片子.谁都不容易啊.
    • 下载地址如下
      mms://media3.online.pbs.org/media4/frontline/2112/windows/ch1_hi.wmv
      。。。
      mms://media3.online.pbs.org/media4/frontline/2112/windows/ch11_hi.wmv

      只是觉的拍的片面,竟然还有五六十年代的情况出现,不知真相的老外还以为是现在的,而且有好些可能也是96年左右的
      只是报道了负面的,为什么没有正面的?
      不得不让人有些怀疑
      • 不是也有成功企业家的形象吗?另外隋市长本来恐怕也是正面介绍的,结果。。。
      • 另外我觉得欠缺的是一个白领阶层的代表了。
        • 有倒是有,那个北京的搞设计老板应算是白领了,但就只有一个;而且地区有些局限,只有北京,沈阳和山东的什么郭庒,怎么没有其它沿海城市,如浙江,上海,福建,广东的?其实山东的好些地方也不错
          • 那还没有拍陕西甘肃宁夏呢,我们那乡下一个月给200就非常不错的工作了。
    • 转几个评论。又:在线的我下载齐了,想看的打个招呼
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛********************************************************************************
      作者: CALDO R , Feb 14,2003,22:19
      今天早上睡不着觉,4点多就起来.没想到电视里正在播放CHINA IN THE RED!老外拍摄的中国改革的专题片.反映的内容有好有坏,十分真实!
      该片选取了当今中国不同社会阶层的几个普通人物,做追踪访问,每年都去实地调查拍摄,我是从1999年看起的,一直到2002年。真的佩服他们的工作态度.现在的中国新闻工作者已经没有象他们这样愿意真正深入生活,拍些真实感人的专题了。老外比我们中国人还要关心和了解中国!
      其中有工人(有首钢的,生活比较稳定。有沈阳的,起初在工作,后来下岗,有的自己做生意.有的下岗后不知下落,总之一年不如一年),有农民(湖北山区的因病贫困女儿失学,我现在理解了为什么中国城市里的很多小姐都来自农村,在农村真的没有活路!山东郭庄的?儿子17岁去北京学冰箱维修结果在拆除围墙...被提留等税外支出压的透不过气来.很多农村的年轻人去了城市!)有北京的私人企业家(明显看着生活一年比一年好,甚至生了第二胎)有著名的经济学者(其中一个是吴敬链,另一个年轻的不认识) 有北京的摄影师,有沈阳的出租车司机.总之,涵盖了当今中国各个阶层,各个方面的人物, 真实反映的今日中国人的生活,有的富裕,有的贫困.还有他们的孩子所面临的困难,和变化!

      主要的城市有北京和沈阳,甚至还每年采访沈阳前市长慕绥欣(从最初的意气风发到后来的阶下囚!) 感受到了城市的巨大变化!

      这部专题片的确可以说是中国这几年来的真实写照!但我相信它不会在国内播放.但真的希望国内的新闻记者们能够深入生活,深入农村,城市,社会的每个角落,多反映那些弱势群体和贫困家庭的生活和困难,让全社会知道我们现在面临的问题,正视并努力解决,为中国的明天.
      片子的结束语是:
      CHINA ECONOMIC REFORM CONTINUES!

      ******************************************************************************

      红色中国让我看了不爽的几个东西
      作者: 军事爱好者 R , Feb 14,2003,23:34
      应该说片子拍得不错,确实是美国专业媒体的专业水准,
      我是在军坛看的消息,打开看了一个后半截。

      先头是个进程打工的,月薪一千,白天干活(捡砖头这样毫无技术的活儿),
      晚上在包工头组织下学维修空调。记者照了照他们的生活条件,
      这么说吧,房间采暖差了点,只有一个放旅行包的空间,有点小,
      不过比我们当年上大学不差,当年我们14平米一间住7口人,一人
      一只箱子,全国重点大学之重点,天之骄子什么的,也不过如此。
      自己是农民,没啥技术,除了学习空调维修,一个月还能挣千多块钱出头,
      你说他苦吗?20来岁,不错了,96年我在北京不打车,基本生活费用
      吃住600块就打住,这两年还闹通缩呢,这个学徒工混得不算差。

      后面讲一女工,好歹保住工作,可是降薪了,一个月四百多,听着挺少,
      女工说着说着哭了,说自己没钱给孩子买好衣服跟别的孩子比,听着我
      心酸,可怜天下父母心啊。。。。。
      紧跟着给了一镜头,这回改我哭了,小少爷穿的比我出国前还光鲜,好,
      就这水平,他妈别哭了,我哭行吗?
      还说一个月光电就要12美金,恕我愚昧,一百块钱电在国内,不光是电冰
      箱吧?


      后面又跟了几个说是下岗的,除了那首钢工人,穿的都不算差,我靠,
      我当年没出国的时候虽然是跟中关村混的程序员,土了点,好赖也是北京首都
      城里人吧?唉。

      那首钢的还这个那个的,当年,80年代末九十年代初,全北京效益最好
      奖金最多的企业就算首钢了吧?他是舍不得首钢,从摇篮到坟墓,
      他能舍得吗,要把我惯到四十岁,打死我都不离开首钢。

      看着这个电视,想想国外民猪们一天到晚说的什么水深火热,
      真TMD大JB的扯他奶奶的蛋,按照他们的标准,我当年也算水深火热,靠。

      我知道北京确实有过着苦日子的穷人,他们都没拍到。但是那些能说明什么吗?

      我不知道我是不是特别没有同情心,或者我这辈子混得一直很差。

      想了想,其实每错,我还就是中国第一批下岗的科学家(按照美国标准),
      有什么了不得啊?呵。想听悲惨故事,我身边的发生的多了。

      我觉得很多人的泪水是那么的廉价。

      应该给他们修个废品回收站造点盐来回报社会。

      ***********************************************************************************

      (以下是从“China in the red”网站的Discussion Board转来的。)

      Dear FRONTLINE,

      As an African American who spends a good deal of time with inner-city youths, many times their only impression of Chinese people are immigrants who have become successful business people owning businesses in their neighborhoods.

      This documentary gives valuable insight as to how the lives of poor people are interconnected. The sickly woman in the documentary appears to be locked in a cycle of poverty that her daughter may inherit without ever having the chance to succeed in life due to her lack of education. Inner city children here in the US are often caught in the same cycle of poverty.

      Often immigrants view the plight of the underclass in America as somehow being entirely "their own fault". Documentaries like these tell us that governmental policy, changes in a societies social fabric, and geography, all play a part in peoples development everywhere in the world.

      Thank you Frontline.


      thad garrison
      nyc, ny



      Dear FRONTLINE,


      Thank you so much not only for honestly documenting these everyday Chinese life, their pains and their hopes, but also for letting us in the States to share their experience and hope.

      It is vitally important for people in the U. S. to have chance to see the struggle and pursuance of real Chinese people, and I can only hope that Chinese people have a chance like this to see the real U. S.

      As a Chinese living in America, I sensed the propaganda and demonization on both sides: the cowardice of big broadcasting company trying or having to falling in line, needless to say the phoniness on Chinese TV. You exemplary work is the banner and way to TV broadcasting.

      Thank you again for your excellent work and I look forward to see more work like this!


      David Yang
      state college, pa



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      As a Chinese, I am really inpressed by your program. It is detailed and most importantly, you have not tailored the materials to fit some kind of unaccurate ideas about China and Chinese. I can say It is a true story, just like the story I can get from unbiased anthropologists.

      What I want to say is that when the word "communism" is used, it deserves an explaination because it has fussy meaning.In China it is not a social development target but mostly a moral tenant for some people now. China never claim itself as "communism" state because it is too far to reach. It only thinks itself as socialism.

      Another thing I want to mention is that, maybe you can add a visit to managers and workers in a foreign company in China.

      Maybe you can make a serial like this about China. For example, you can concerntrate on the government re-structuring. The education system changing, pop culture. and so on.

      I know it is defficult to do all of this, that is why I feel grateful to your program.


      tonglu lee
      lansing, mi



      Dear FRONTLINE,


      Thanks for this great documentary "China in Red". I watched this program without any stop, and even forgot to go to bathroom. For the first time, I recorded it with my VCR which has not been used for years.

      I came to USA four years, and have never been back to China. So everything about China makes me excited and homesick.

      From this program, we can see a real China. Despite a lot of problems, some even fundmental, China is still a booming and prosperous country, with huge progress during 1998-2002. This can be seen from more smiles on the faces of ordinary people and the improvement of their living condition.

      For example, when the lady in Chestnut Flower Village was interviewed, she wore an pink and embroided shirt, obviously specifically for this interview, this is much different from the blue male-like suit she had worn in last interview.

      Also, the anti-corruption compaign has achieved some progress, the Mayor of Shenyang had been sentenced to death with two years suspension for corruption.....This showes that justice is functioning, if not quite well and always.

      To me, the worst thing untolerable is that business man Wu Zheng had gotten the birth certificate of another son throgh bribe, relations and a sort of donation to hospital, even in Beijing where the birth control is strictly conducted. There is a Chinese saying, "with money, the Ghost can push the mills", this time, it is valid again.

      Anyway, China is doing very well, and I love this country, my homeland. Best wish for a modern, democratic and rich China in the future.

      Thank you again, Frontline and Sue Williams, for this wonderful film.


      Zhihong Zhu, PhD
      new york, ny



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      I would like to congratulate the authors of the program with an outstanding piece of documentary work.

      I turned on PBS by chance and could not stop watching. I have never been to China - know little about everyday life there, but all the faces, feelings, and thoughts of ordinary and unordinary Chinese people shown by the authors with sincerity, kindness, and painful soul seeking made me one step closer to China and to those 10 people shown in the documentary, struggling in their everyday life for a better future of their children.


      Igor Efimov
      cleveland, oh



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      Thank you for providing the best documentary about China!

      Ordinary people endure the pain of the social transition while still keep hope (at least for their children). I just hope more Chinese people could also see this documentary, especially young people in big cities.

      Could PBS/Frontline grants the right to let people to post video file of this documentary on their web site or file-sharing service (like Kazza )? So it can break into the Great Firewall of China.



      west lafayette, in

      FRONTLINE's editors respond:
      Beginning Saturday, Feb 15, this program,"China in the Red," will be video streamed in full here on this web site (in Windows Media and Real Player). Unfortunately, as the writer mentions, the PBS/FRONTLINE web site is blocked in China so it's virtually impossible for Chinese to view it . To learn more about China and the Internet, see the "Democracy" section of this web site.




      Dear FRONTLINE,


      As a Chinese American, this film has brought me back the memroires that may have faded away. I was bron in Beijing in the early 60s and raised in HK. Not that I can say I've tasted their bitterness, yet there are many things in your film that I can relate myself.

      After watching the film, while my wife was battling with my three years old crying for his bottle at 2am. I wrote the following:

      Unknown marks the roads ahead, Ye hath seen China in Red. At corner of two paths cross, finding thy ways, Fate dearest, yet many, lost. Ere the break of day, Ere the break of day.

      I am not a poet, nor my English is worth to show off, but that is exactly what I feel about the China that your film has reminded me.


      Steven Wu
      tempe, az



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      Beautiful documentary. I especially loved the music and sound design. While the "Birth of the Beijing Music Scene" portion of this website provides a comprehensive overview, [Cui Jian, et al], very little was mentioned of Jason Kao Hwang, credited for original music on the project.

      I would be most interested in learning more about him, perhaps to purchase some of his own work. Is there an accompanying soundtrack to the documentary? A link to his website would be helpful as well.

      While my comments may seem slightly off topic, I would be happy to contribute to all these musician's own "market economies" by looking into and purchasing their music!



      Stephen Reyburn
      vancouver, british columbia



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      The songs that were sung in the first hour were done by a Asian female with a hauntingly-beautiful voice (when showing film about people in the poverty-stricken village), in fact the whole program had great sound and music. My hats off to your music selection and sound staff! Is there a CD with the music from this program?

      Also, the information in the program was presented so plainly and honestly, and the films/art/pictures/narrator captured the events so vividly, so a big applause to the creators of this program!

      I didn't realize that China had turned its back on its entire population, while many (if not most) were only paid minimum wage (which is a helluva lot less than in the US). Before that, everyone had a job who wanted one, and no one seemed unhappy. I too would be happy if I worked for a company (read: have-ers) who shared the wealth with the employees (read: have-nots) by providing all their needs for free, including much-needed medical attention after they retired or became disabled!

      We all know there's only so much a good man or woman can take before they decide that enough is enough, so it's only a matter of time before these millions of people rise up and clean up the mess that the rich have made.

      Stepping down off my soapbox...thanks for presenting such a wonderful program! I rarely write my 2-cents about anything, but this was really good!! Please let me know about the CD.



      jacksonville, fl

      FRONTLINE's editors respond:
      Unfortunately, there is no CD of the music from this program. However, beginning Feb.15, the whole program is available in video streaming here on this web site. Thus you can listen to the song to which the writer refers -- "Wild Flower" by Tian Zhen -- Just click on "Chapter 3" in the video section. This music comes at the very beginning of this section.




      Dear FRONTLINE,

      I enjoyed this documentary film very much. I lived in China and Taiwan during 1981-99, and saw the incredible social, political, and cultural changes that both societies have undergone in the past 20 years. I was going back and forth between China and Taiwan in the early-mid 1980s when Taiwan was still under martial law and it was forbidden for Chinese in Taiwan to visit their families in China; I served as a "bridge", taking letters and gifts to give to families that had been separated for over 40 years!

      I continue my travels to China and Taiwan, even though I moved back to Florida a few years ago. I created an educational and entertaining troupe that travelled to the "4 Chinas" (Taiwan, HK, Macau, and mainland) during the Year of the Dragon (2000), and documented this historical event. We also documented a Journey To The East odyssey in 2001 into rural western China, following the same route I had taken 20 years earlier.

      The changes have been monumental, and yet there is still beauty in the simplicity of rural China.

      Rhett Farber
      jacksonville, florida



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      As I watched the show, several internal levels of watching, listening and learning transformed into very intense levels of "comparison"---comparison based on personal experiences with daily living, work, gov't, loving, children, etc. I drifted from learning about China to questioning What is Culture? & What are the worlds problems?

      Attire, meals, physical differences and even architecture are not significant differences, they are simply different. Some people like different, some do not. Some like it until the newness wears off. Underneath such a very thin "skin" of culture, I noted very few differences.

      I concluded, and will continue to think about; 1) the basic types of problems they have are the same as ours--it's the general level and distribution of wealth that is different, 2) good people are good people anywhere you go, 3) are other countries' corruption problems simply more sophisticated than theirs? 4) Success by those with short term thinking has a very negative effect on much of the world.

      Thank you for this extremely fine report. It affected much differently than I had thought it might.

      high point, nc



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      It's possible to see how problems that China has could be problems for us here in the U.S. in the not so distant future. Many here lack medical insurance thus depriving them of necessary medication yet we lack the will to demand a national medical care system similar to that of most European countries. The Chinese governments, both at local and national levels, suffer from corruption. But is this much different from all of the illegal bookkeeping going on in this country? The real danger is for us to assume that a free market system is superior to a centralized controlled system. It's true only if safeguards exist to protect investors from corporate leaders that cook their books making it appear that their companies are in good shape financially when, in reality, only their own bank accounts are in good shape. We also suffer from corporations that, through creative accounting, pay no federal taxes though their profits are high.

      Finally, I see our system of public education being underfunded for lack of a focus on education for the greater good of the country. A result is the wealthy are more and more withdrawing from the public education system and focusing on private education for their children. This will undermine the public school system, the system that gave them the education to succeed in the workplace.

      Gayland Hokanson
      raleigh, nc



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      After returning from China a little more than a month ago, I watched this documentary deep interest. I am a graduate student at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and became seriously interested in "exploring China" after traveling to and studying the Long March in China with one of my professors, Anne Thurston. My most recent trip was to Zhejiang Univerisity to was continue my study of the Chinese language and well as do some job hunting. My interest in teaching lead me to the Peace Corps and I recently learned that I was invited to serve in China.

      Anne Thurston made an interesting comment regarding the "three represents," something I became more aware of on my most recent trip to China. During the 16th Party Congress, in October 2002, I saw banners and pictures going up everywhere in praise of Presidents Jiang's accomplishments with along with instructions to follow the ideas presented in the Party Congress. I think we as Americans need to understand that China, even as its becomes more open, its is still a nation governed by doctrine and propaganda. I think if you look at Taiwan and even South Korea, both nations that made the transition from authoritarian to pluralist political systems, you see a way in which China may transform itself politically. But the problems in China are of much greater proportion due to its size, population and status as a nuclear power. I think grassroots elections at the village level are a good start to educating people about the how to run a free and open election etc., but as Anne Thurston said the CCP's reluctance to cede power is and continues to be the main reason why a more pluralist political system can't take root.

      Thank You

      Sanjay Srikantiah
      cambridge, oh



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      I find the democratic changes in China very exciting. It's unfortunate that many Chinese citizens find themselves without adequate pensions, health care, or even a job at all. Many of the people who inhabited USA during its period of early growth had similar problems. This doesn't make the plight of people shown on Frontline less real, but studying our own history helps put China today in a historic perspective.

      Mary Richie
      forest park, illinois



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      I just watched the PBS program China in Red. All I wanted to say is it's the best program so far on the extraordinary and historical changes happening in China. Not biased, stereotyped like so many other reports/news you can find in US mass media. I'm very grateful to the whole team as a Chinese who is proud of China's past, presence and her future.

      Lei Yang
      cincinnati, oh



      Dear FRONTLINE,

      I just wanted to compliment the makers of this project on capturing the real flavor of China. I spent two years studying in Central China roughly around the same time you were filming, and everything you portrayed was in line with my experiences and observations. With so many stereotypical images of China and the East, it is refreshing to see someone "get it right" for once, and I hope that your film will help to educate Americans on this largely misunderstood nation.

      I would also like to compliment you on effectively illustrating the complex economic and life issues facing the Chinese people in this age of unprecedented change and transition. Many of my conversations with Chinese friends revolved around the very issues you have spotlighted - they are not easy issues to fully explain and explore, and you have done an incredible job. Congratulations!

      waco, tx更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
      • 你有第四集么?我下的说第四个文件不存在
        • Yes. 全齐了
          • 有一个台湾人说台湾转型的时候也是差不多这种情况,希望中国能象台湾那样慢慢富裕起来。
            • 韩国似乎也是这样。不知道大家是否还记得1988年前的韩国,学生总是在游行,好像还有自焚的。不同的是韩国当时有个著名的反对党领袖金大中而且允许学生闹事;台湾在蒋经国之后放宽了控制。
              • 中国多大?台湾多大?韩国多大?多少人口?
                • 人口有时候也是一种优势,外国公司在中国建厂也是因为中国市场大么。
                • 同志,韩国我不知道,可这台湾人口密度可比中国大多了!要谈人口跟日本比,人才多大一点地方,又没有资源,人口也是上亿。为什么人家就能做好?
          • 能不能给个下第四集的地址?
            • check your email